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Thread: Why doesn't she STTN?

  1. #1
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    Default Why doesn't she STTN?

    DD3 is going to be 9 months old. I never expect my kids to STTN until a year. DD1 was 11 months and DD2 was 10 months I think? But was never really able to put my older kids down while awake and have them fall asleep on their own. DD3 is special I have explained on here before that she is so fidgety that I have almost never been able to rock her to sleep...which makes me sad So it's always been hard to get her to sleep and we unfortunately had to let her cry a bit because we tried pretty much everything else and she wouldn't tolerate being held, rocked or nursed to sleep.

    When I put her down for a nap or for the night I sit and rock and nurse her. Sometimes she does fall asleep because her afternoon nap is messed up because I have to pick DD1 up from school so it's too short and she is usually very overtired by bedtime (between 7-8pm). Even when she does fall asleep while rocking she always wakes up when I am putting her in the crib. She will cry out for a sec and settle or sometimes a little more but not more than 20-30 seconds. Sometimes she is fully awake and goes to sleep without a peep. Sometimes she cries on and off for a while then goes to sleep but no long extended crying.

    Anyway, I always thought that the STTN theory was that since babies go through a lot of sleep cycles they wake up and go back many times. If they can't self soothe or know how to fall asleep on their own they will wake up and cry for you. She DOES know how to put herself back to sleep so why does she wake up still 3-4xs/night?

    I don't think she is actually hungry because when I nurse her she doesn't nurse as if she is hungry (fellow BFers will understand what I mean)...she kind of just comfort sucks. If DH gives her a bottle of pumped milk sometimes she only drinks a few oz.

    Anything I can do to change things up? I am willing to wait it out I am just surprised that she isn't sleeping better since she is able to fall asleep on her own.....
    Thing 1 (8), Thing 2 (5), Thing 3 (2)

  2. #2

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    How hard have you tried to let her fall back asleep on her own when she wakes in the middle of the night? I would let her fuss for a bit then and see if she can do it after 5-10 minutes. If so, she will learn to put herself back to sleep more and more quickly. She may be in the habit of waiting for you to bail her out.
    One of the moms I know has 7 kids, who all sleep well. I asked her what her trick was, and she said, I don't believe in cry-it-out, but if they wake me at night I use the bathroom and get myself a drink of water before I go to their room. 9 times out of 10 they don't actually need me...

  3. #3
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    I do think babies can get into a cycle of waking up at certain times out of habit and expect you to come in. Mine did. It was around that age that DD2 was still waking up at 2:00 am and I was going in to feed her every night. My pedi asked about her sleep habits and I told him. He told me that at her age she does not *need* to eat during the night. She gets all the calories she needs during the day, unlike a newborn who needs to eat every so many hours. He didn't go so far as to tell me that I should not nurse or comfort her, he said how I deal with it is up to me, but that I should know 'nutritionally' she does not need to wake up. That was helpful for me to hear because I didn't want to not feed her if she was waking up because she was hungry, but like you she seemed to want comfort nursing more than hunger nursing.
    What I did was to go in, lay her back down, pat and shush her for the first few nights. Then for a few nights I just laid her back down with a shhhhh as I left the room. Then stopped going in at all and let her fuss for a while until she went back to sleep. She doesn't wake up in the middle of the night anymore.

    But, of course the disclaimer, that was my baby, and each baby is different.

  4. #4
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    I do wait a bit....most of the time. Sometimes I am just confused and out of it lol. Maybe I don't wait long enough...I do maybe 5 mins. I don't think I have done 10. I have 2 other kids and tenants so I am afraid to let it go on too long but maybe I will try to hold out a bit longer. She generally isn't crying hard or anything and it's a start/stop type thing. The problem is - when I wait sometimes she goes back but wakes up 1 hour later???

    She usually does wake a certain times - 10:30, 1:30, and 4:30. I have tried to leave her be at the 10:30 since I am still up and better able to deal with it. Sometimes she just escalates into total hysterical crying. Especially odd for the first wake up because she eats a regular dinner around 5-6pm and then nurses at 7 so she has a good amount in her before going to sleep...
    Thing 1 (8), Thing 2 (5), Thing 3 (2)

  5. #5

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    I dunno, my dd is 18m and puts her self to sleep at naps and night most times, but still wakes at night completely randomly. Some nights she wakes up, sometimes she doesn't. Some times its once, sometimes its 3 or 4 times. She's an enigma.

  6. #6

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    I think it is just one of those 'every kid is different, and there is no rule or logic to explain what they do' things. The triplets STTN at 8 months. Jericho didn't STTN until I fully weaned him and got him out of our bedroom at 23 months, he was waking up a min of 2-3 times a night still....I was DONE. Both were able to self-soothe and fall asleep on their own. Hang in there Momma.

    ~*~Katrina~*~ Momma to Xander, Hayden & Lily (6) and Jericho (3 1/2)

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by macksmom View Post
    When I put her down for a nap or for the night I sit and rock and nurse her. Sometimes she does fall asleep because her afternoon nap is messed up because I have to pick DD1 up from school so it's too short and she is usually very overtired by bedtime (between 7-8pm). Even when she does fall asleep while rocking she always wakes up when I am putting her in the crib. She will cry out for a sec and settle or sometimes a little more but not more than 20-30 seconds. Sometimes she is fully awake and goes to sleep without a peep. Sometimes she cries on and off for a while then goes to sleep but no long extended crying.
    This may be part of your answer. She needs to be put to bed tired, but awake, every night, following the same pattern without fail. She needs to go to sleep to start without you there and thus, be capable of falling back asleep without you there - not occasionally but all of the time.

    But even then, you might have to go in to soothe her to go back to sleep. but you don't go immediately, in case she can adjust without you. and if you go, you don't take her out of the crib, feed her, rock her, etc. just check on her to ensure that she's okay, turn on her music/mobile - if used, touch her in the crib gently... I don't recall all of the details b/c it's been almost 2 years since we did our sleep training, but consistency was one of the major factors.

  8. #8

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    Our babies are almost the same age so I can relate. Ben goes to sleep on his own in his crib... and wakes up 3-5 times a night to nurse! Most of the time he does nurse very well so I genuinely believe he is hungry. Other times, he will nurse just a bit. I don't mind him waking up as long as he goes back to bed after that. Most of the time, he wants to play and is up for 30-45 minutes after he nurses and I just watch him on the monitor because I don't want him falling asleep on his tummy (OCD, I know). So, no real good advice here but wanted to let you know that I think it's normal for some babies and that you are not alone!

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by macksmom View Post
    I do wait a bit....most of the time. Sometimes I am just confused and out of it lol. Maybe I don't wait long enough...I do maybe 5 mins. I don't think I have done 10. I have 2 other kids and tenants so I am afraid to let it go on too long but maybe I will try to hold out a bit longer. She generally isn't crying hard or anything and it's a start/stop type thing. The problem is - when I wait sometimes she goes back but wakes up 1 hour later???

    She usually does wake a certain times - 10:30, 1:30, and 4:30. I have tried to leave her be at the 10:30 since I am still up and better able to deal with it. Sometimes she just escalates into total hysterical crying. Especially odd for the first wake up because she eats a regular dinner around 5-6pm and then nurses at 7 so she has a good amount in her before going to sleep...
    Sorry, just read this. Ben does this too and his eating times are 10pm-ish for the first one; 2-3am for the second one and 6am for the third one - so almost identical to yours. Occasionally, he will slip another two feedings in which are almost always 1.5-2 hours after the previous one.

  10. #10
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    If she is consistently waking at 10:30ish and often escalating into hysterical crying then maybe the 7-8pm bedtime isn't really bedtime for her right now. For awhile at about that age Keira moved into having a naptime from 7/8-9/10 and then being down for the night around 11:30. It was inconvenient but if I tried to make the 7/8pm nap be her bedtime she was up and down all night. If I got her up when she woke and kept her up for another 1.5-2 hours before laying her back down she would be out all night. Eventually I was able to push that nap out and she went to being down at 10 for the night, then 9, then 8.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibisgirldc View Post
    This may be part of your answer. She needs to be put to bed tired, but awake, every night, following the same pattern without fail. She needs to go to sleep to start without you there and thus, be capable of falling back asleep without you there - not occasionally but all of the time.

    But even then, you might have to go in to soothe her to go back to sleep. but you don't go immediately, in case she can adjust without you. and if you go, you don't take her out of the crib, feed her, rock her, etc. just check on her to ensure that she's okay, turn on her music/mobile - if used, touch her in the crib gently... I don't recall all of the details b/c it's been almost 2 years since we did our sleep training, but consistency was one of the major factors.
    I wonder if she is capable of putting herself to sleep but only when really close to being asleep rather than fully awake? And maybe when she wakes and cries but wont settle is when she is in a cycle of waking all the way up? The times I listed above are every 3 hours on the dot. I wonder if it's cycle vs habit....

    I have tried consoling her while leaving her in her crib and she just goes batty. Tonight I tried to put her in to bed for the night more awake than usual.

    Quote Originally Posted by martiniqus View Post
    Sorry, just read this. Ben does this too and his eating times are 10pm-ish for the first one; 2-3am for the second one and 6am for the third one - so almost identical to yours. Occasionally, he will slip another two feedings in which are almost always 1.5-2 hours after the previous one.
    It is amazing how a lot of them get on the same schedule. What are his naps like?

    Quote Originally Posted by DucksLikeRain View Post
    If she is consistently waking at 10:30ish and often escalating into hysterical crying then maybe the 7-8pm bedtime isn't really bedtime for her right now. For awhile at about that age Keira moved into having a naptime from 7/8-9/10 and then being down for the night around 11:30. It was inconvenient but if I tried to make the 7/8pm nap be her bedtime she was up and down all night. If I got her up when she woke and kept her up for another 1.5-2 hours before laying her back down she would be out all night. Eventually I was able to push that nap out and she went to being down at 10 for the night, then 9, then 8.
    I actually think she is overtired and that is why she wakes a lot between the time I put her down and midnight. Yesterday she was textbook with her naps. 10-11:30 and then 2-3:30 for a total of 3 hours of daytime sleep. We did the bedtime routine and I put her down around 7:30. She seemed MUCH better. She did wake at 9pm and I waited to see what she would do. I realize I was going in rather soon - before 5 mins because waiting 5 mins seemed long to me. She wasn't even actually crying but making sounds and kind of whining. By 8 mins she went back to sleep again She slept until about 12:30 but at that time her fussing escalated into major crying so I went in. Now I probably could have gotten away with just rocking her but I was afraid I would get too engorged if I didn't nurse. This is where I think I am enabling some of this nightwaking. I go back and forth between being over it and enjoying the cuddling time with my last baby and being afraid I will mess up my supply or get engorged. I need to decide what I want and just go with it!

    So I nursed and changed her at 12:30 and then she was up at 4:30 where I nursed her and put her back (without a diaper change). She was up for the day at 7:30. I actually don't mind that although I happened to be up at 12:30 but was very tired. I am usually up at 12 but I don't like feeling like I need to wait up to see if she will wake up....

    Another thing is - when she tries to settle herself she scoots forward. Eventually when she wakes up and doesn't seem to be resettling her head is against the end of the crib! I have been wondering if I quietly went in and moved her down before she woke up if she would resettle better? I was wondering if she was waking because her head was up against the crib like that and it was hurting her. We only have breathable bumpers so the crib is kind of hard. She also will replace pacifiers herself if they are around her but when she starts getting really upset she isn't satisfied with the paci.
    Thing 1 (8), Thing 2 (5), Thing 3 (2)

  12. #12

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    My 2 and a half year old still doesn't STTN. He gets up between midnight and 3 am and gets into bed to cuddle with me.
    Megan (29) and Jayson (31) Happily married 9 years



  13. #13

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    To me it sounds like she's waking out of habit at this point, and she knows you will come if she fusses long enough. Hayden did the same thing when he was little, and at 10 months when he would literally take two sucks of the bottle then fall back to sleep, we just had to let him cry it out. I went in every 3-4 minutes to calm him down, and it took a couple times of doing that, but after the 3rd night, he no longer woke up.

    The twins still wake up in the middle of the night, but it's because they've lost their paci and can't find it. I know theirs isn't habbit since they will STN, for a couple days, then wake up one night, then sleep good for a night or two, again. Plus as soon as I give them back a paci, they're out cold again...

    *Kimberly* Mommy to Hayden (7), Alexis (5), Makenzie & Brooke (18m)!
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