Major Night Time Issues...

[Ashleen]

I am having some major night time problems with Paige. First of all just getting her to sleep in the first place takes hours... we have to do the whole routine which involves pajamas, snack, brush teeth, read books, lights out, imagination story, back massage, snuggles.. and that still doesn't work. She doesn't take naps and is very active during the day so I just don't understand why she can't fall asleep. But that is not even our biggest problem. Our biggest problem is in the middle of the night. In the middle of every night she wakes up and throws a huge fit. You can hear her waking up with a big "Uhhh!!!!" in a very frustrated voice then she begins thrashing around and yelling (she and her brother share a room so this is not ideal). She always wants everything off of her bed as she says she can't stand the covers they are "not the right shape" and are "horrible!", sometimes she'll take off her pants too saying they are "horrible". Then she gets super mad because she is cold and can't sleep. It's like she just cannot stand to have anything touching her legs. During all this she can not be comforted at all.... if you try to talk to her she flips out telling you to leave her alone, but if you try to leave her alone she screams at you to "come back here" then you do and she screams to "get away from her". The whole time she is simply miserable crying and screaming, but also being very very rude, and mean. I have no idea what to do, at all. I am so sooo tired, because besides all this with her I have Jude who still likes to wake up 6+ times a night to nurse. Some nights only get a 3 hours of sleep the most I usually get is 5 hours... 6 is an amazing night for me. Paige is tired too, she has to get up at 7 for school, and this whole process can take 2-4 hours for her to calm down. As far as how that happens is she eventually calms down enough to either have a snack or watch a T.V. show (these are things I bribe her with to get her to calm down...not tactics I am proud of but so far the only thing that works) .. but even after she calms down (usually about an hour after this all starts) I still have to get her back to sleep which is just as hard as the first time plus at this point she still won't let anything touch her legs (she does do that sometimes when I first put her to sleep too but she isn't so hysterical). So yeah nights are rough. So please if you have any ideas or suggestions please share them because I am going crazy.

[CAAinMN]

The only thing I can think of is she's overly tired...what time is bedtime?

[pumpkinseed2011]

If she doesn't like anything touching her legs, could she be very itchy and the fabric makes it worse? And I'm seeing my DD sleep sounder putting her to bed earlier. That's my thoughts. Wish it were more.

[JJorn]

I'd also try getting her to bed earlier. As for the really long routine I'd just try to whittle it down bit by bit Drop a book each night, have the snuggle be so many minutes shorter, etc. I understand that sharing room stress, too; my kids also share a room and when one has a rough night everyone does.

Could she have an issue with your laundry detergent/softener making her itchy? I get hives from some laundry products but just get itchy from a whole bunch more. Could she just be so itchy even to the point of pain? It really sucks to be woken at night or not able to get to sleep because you are so itchy. My skin always hates to be touched when it is freaking out, too. She just might not have the words yet to tell you what the real issue is. I really hope that you figure this out.

Oh, and sometimes the itchy bit is more like burning or like sharp pain or even bruise like pain. It varies for me.

[Ashleen]

Bedtime starts at 7pm, we are laying in bed with lights off telling imagination stories by 7:30pm. I could probably move it up by half hour max. I don't know about the itchy thing, she never has any marks on her legs and I never see her scratching. She's a little weird about pants sometimes during the day even though... she usually only likes leggings because she likes them tight around her ankles, but then other times she doesn't seem to care . So I just don't know, but I feel like I need to figure something out because I am just so tired (and I'm sure she is too).

[Ashleen]

Dh says I'm rewarding her by letting her get up and have a snack and/or watch a T.V. show. Which I guess is true, but I really don't know how else to handle it, nothing else seems to calm her down.

[V]

It sounds like you're having a tough time, little sleep plays havoc with our emotions so sure you're feeling pretty whacked right now too. It's not easy dealing with two children during the night at same time at all, I had similar issues with my two when ds was about same age as yours. I get what it's like to try anything, bribes included, ya gotta do what ya gotta do to keep sane right!

I wish I had some magic words, I would have used them myself lol, just wanted to offer some support cos it gets lonely during the long dark nights. It will pass, you will sleep again. I really hope it's soon and you find a solution that works for you and dd.. It might be her skin is itchy but it might be nothing concrete at all, such is the enigma of kids sleeping!!

Hugs and Good luck x

[RachelB]

It sounds like the stuff touching her legs is the problem, so these are some things i was thinking about that. Does she have problems during the day with stuff touching her legs? Is she generally ok with tights, leggings and pants? maybe there is an underlying issue there? Are her blankets tucked in? Maybe she needs to get some air on her feet. My DS does through spells of not wanting anything on his feet at bedtime - we have to short sheet his blankets.

Does it get better over the weekend if you're able to let her sleep in and catch up a little? Maybe it's a problem of her being overtired, too?

I'd trim the night time routine, too. That sounds like a lot of work, momma!

[Suja]

So, I have no idea how to fix this or anything, so I'm just throwing out some random thoughts that may or may not make any sense.

Can you put Jude in your room? That would give you more options in terms of dealing with DD's screaming, and it could save your sanity.

Before you go to bed (every day), talk to her about the screaming at night and such. Talk to her about how important it is for her to get good night time sleep because that's what allows her brain to remember things she learned, for her body to rest and grow, and that it is important for her to get a good night's rest in order to be big/tall/strong (whatever she likes to think of herself as). Also talk about good dental hygiene, and how she can't have snacks any more in the middle of the night because it's terrible for her teeth. And about how there will be no more TV in the middle of the night, because that doesn't allow her brain or her eyes to get sufficient rest. Assure her that you will be there for her if she is upset, but she has to learn to calm herself down if she wakes up in the middle of the night. Also ask her why she thinks she is waking up, and what she needs to help her fall back asleep again, so you can have a plan, formulated by her, for how to get her back to sleep.

When she wakes up at night and starts screaming, go in and let her know that you are listening, but that you will come back for her after she has calmed herself down. Once she is calmer, remind her of what you spoke with her about, ask if she needs your help with settling back down, and then help her with that.

In your shoes, I would absolutely try to minimize the amount of talking that you do, you can do whatever soothing behaviors she likes instead. If she gets hysterical again, lather, rinse, repeat.

Mira is a younger version of this, and mostly, this is what I do. I remind her every night that there is 'No more milkie after brushing her teeth', and that she has to try her best to sleep, sleep, sleep all throught he night so that when she wakes up, she'll be fresh, and ready to play/do work, that sort of thing.

[anonsouthernbell]

Check out the raisi f your spirited child book. They even have a chapter on sleep

[Ashleen]

So, I have no idea how to fix this or anything, so I'm just throwing out some random thoughts that may or may not make any sense.

Can you put Jude in your room? That would give you more options in terms of dealing with DD's screaming, and it could save your sanity.

Before you go to bed (every day), talk to her about the screaming at night and such. Talk to her about how important it is for her to get good night time sleep because that's what allows her brain to remember things she learned, for her body to rest and grow, and that it is important for her to get a good night's rest in order to be big/tall/strong (whatever she likes to think of herself as). Also talk about good dental hygiene, and how she can't have snacks any more in the middle of the night because it's terrible for her teeth. And about how there will be no more TV in the middle of the night, because that doesn't allow her brain or her eyes to get sufficient rest. Assure her that you will be there for her if she is upset, but she has to learn to calm herself down if she wakes up in the middle of the night. Also ask her why she thinks she is waking up, and what she needs to help her fall back asleep again, so you can have a plan, formulated by her, for how to get her back to sleep.

When she wakes up at night and starts screaming, go in and let her know that you are listening, but that you will come back for her after she has calmed herself down. Once she is calmer, remind her of what you spoke with her about, ask if she needs your help with settling back down, and then help her with that.

In your shoes, I would absolutely try to minimize the amount of talking that you do, you can do whatever soothing behaviors she likes instead. If she gets hysterical again, lather, rinse, repeat.

Mira is a younger version of this, and mostly, this is what I do. I remind her every night that there is 'No more milkie after brushing her teeth', and that she has to try her best to sleep, sleep, sleep all throught he night so that when she wakes up, she'll be fresh, and ready to play/do work, that sort of thing.

This is actually a really great suggestion!! Thank you!!! I am definetly going to be doing this!

Check out the raisi f your spirited child book. They even have a chapter on sleep

Thank you! I will check that out!

It sounds like you're having a tough time, little sleep plays havoc with our emotions so sure you're feeling pretty whacked right now too. It's not easy dealing with two children during the night at same time at all, I had similar issues with my two when ds was about same age as yours. I get what it's like to try anything, bribes included, ya gotta do what ya gotta do to keep sane right!

I wish I had some magic words, I would have used them myself lol, just wanted to offer some support cos it gets lonely during the long dark nights. It will pass, you will sleep again. I really hope it's soon and you find a solution that works for you and dd.. It might be her skin is itchy but it might be nothing concrete at all, such is the enigma of kids sleeping!!

Hugs and Good luck x

Thank you! It is really rough, I am feeling soo unproductive it's ridiculous.

It sounds like the stuff touching her legs is the problem, so these are some things i was thinking about that. Does she have problems during the day with stuff touching her legs? Is she generally ok with tights, leggings and pants? maybe there is an underlying issue there? Are her blankets tucked in? Maybe she needs to get some air on her feet. My DS does through spells of not wanting anything on his feet at bedtime - we have to short sheet his blankets.

Does it get better over the weekend if you're able to let her sleep in and catch up a little? Maybe it's a problem of her being overtired, too?

I'd trim the night time routine, too. That sounds like a lot of work, momma!

The leg thing is weird, I really don't know what it is all about. Sometimes during the day she is fine, but other days she will only wear a dress or leggings because she can't stand the feeling of anything else. The bedtime routine is a lot of work, especially making up a story every night and she wants them to be longer and longer and gets mad when they're over (that's actually how we started with the back massage thing, so that she would let me stop the story at without a huge fit). Seriously though I could probably start writing children's stories I'm so practiced in them up

[AmeriBrit]

No advice here, but I hope things in the sleep department turn around for you soon!

[texaschic]

The first thing I thought of was Restless Leg Syndrome. Here's a link that describes what it can be like for kids :http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2012/09/...dren-kids.html

I have RLS (it was way worse during my pregnancies) but maybe it's something to consider? But, I like Suja's post as far as talking to her before about nighttime is for sleeping, etc.

Good luck!

[babykenny]

I hope it gets better for you! I used to be really picky as a child about how my clothes felt on me. It was a phase for sure. I see DS starting it, and I try not to engage in it too much. When he starts to get crazy, I fix the problem with as little fuss as possible. The more I say or force him to sleep or whatever, the more difficult and oppositional he becomes. He's younger though...

good luck! I hope it turns around or the phase ends soon!!!

[Ashleen]

No advice here, but I hope things in the sleep department turn around for you soon!

Thanks! I hope so too! lol!

The first thing I thought of was Restless Leg Syndrome. Here's a link that describes what it can be like for kids :http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2012/09/...dren-kids.html

I have RLS (it was way worse during my pregnancies) but maybe it's something to consider? But, I like Suja's post as far as talking to her before about nighttime is for sleeping, etc.

Good luck!

Huh I never even thought about that... I will definitely look into this!

[pumpkinpeejays]

Just throwing out ideas here too....

My Sonja is only 2.5, but she has night terrors. Sometimes I just plug my ears and give her a half hour to cry it out and that's the end of it. Is there anything you can think of that might give her night terrors or nightmares? Can you try putting tight leggings on her for bed in place of PJs for a little while?

I honestly think she has you "trained" to respond the way you do.... like she's in charge of the situation. I'd for sure try everything OP suggested, keeping in mind that she's developed a sort of distorted sense of a routine, not sure how.... no one is to blame but I think it just escalated..... as you and your DH gave an inch, she took a mile.... that kind of thing.

Sorry you're going through this! I wish there was a simple answer besides tough love and time!

[tapir]

Ditto on the restless leg syndrome. First line therapy is iron so you can try a multi with iron (read the label, most kid ones have no iron). I would get her in with a sleep doc if at all possible.