OK to CIO?

[Cosmosmom]

Thank you for the point of view from someone who actually used a sleep training method!

I find myself kind of neutral on the topic which is why this headline caught my eye. I don't believe in crying it out for hours and hours or to the point of physical illness....or allowing a child to be scared and terrified.
but on the other hand, I don't believe that all fussiness needs immediate attention and would prefer to develop the ability to fall asleep easily and alone. I am NOT a good sleeper and do not fall asleep easily. And that really can affect ones health getting not enough sleep...especially a growing baby/child!

[ibisgirldc]

btw, what is wrong with teaching their child sleep skills with a goal that the parent can sleep, too. No doubt, parenting is about sacrifice (and lack of sleep), but when did it become a martyrdom contest?

If both child AND parent can be better off from the development of life-long habits (whether that means that mom/dad are better able to play with that child, go to work or care for that child, better able to participate in family activities, maintains better health in short and long terms, etc), I don't see why that would be objectionable. (The need and benefits of sleep, for children and adults, are well established. Unquestionable, even.) Nor do I see why someone who chooses to function on less sleep would be a more "caring" parent.

[Bridget]

I didn't see anyone claiming martyrdom or saying they are a more caring parent. I guess I just went into it knowing that I was going to have sleepless nights but that they wouldn't last forever. I don't think for one second that I am more caring than my best friend who used sleep training. I just have different ideas and opinions about it. That is all.

[ibisgirldc]

we all have sleepless nights; a parent who sleep trains knew that he/she would have them, too. but a few of the earlier posts seem to suggest that parents who train with the motivation that they can sleep (in addition to providing sleep benefits to their kids) are unprepared and selfish. Like there's something wrong with needing and wanting sleep - or that having more sleepless nights than the next person says something qualitative about one's parenting.

[hotpinkmomma0811]

I'm the odd person out in saying I do think its okay but, only for 5 minutes or so not a long time and not for tiny babies.

[caitlinsmommy]

I would never use CIO or controlled crying or whatever. Motherhood is tough, but one thing that I have realized during my short duration as a Mom so far is that a lot of the times the thing that *feels* right to you *is* the right the thing to do. CIO has never felt right to me, and I do not need a study to support my belief. Like was previously mentioned, it seems like there is a study out there to support almost every single parenting choice. If CIO feels right to you, maybe it is best in your personal situation with your unique child.

I didn't look at the video but that really irks me that it showed newborn babies. It kind of reminds me of the news thing on the dangers of cosleeping that showed the baby sleeping next to a knife, but it didn't include any information that the babies in the study had mothers who were not cosleeping safely. The misinformation constantly given by the news blows me away. The informed viewers are usually the mothers who didn't need a news article in the first place to help them make a decision, which is why it scares me the most. Imagine all those viewers who will just see the video and assume that CIO is okay from whenever, or that cosleeping is the equivalent of sleeping with a knife, (or whatever parenting choice will be attacked next), and wont look into things further to make a decision.

[Babidol]

I don't practice CIO in my house and I won't ever. DD wasn't that kind of child and quite frankly there is nothing more disturbing to me than letting a child cry and then eventually walking in and see their terrified, bewildered face. It's truly awful. My DD is 3 and still rarely sleeps through the night as I don't either. She gets up to pee or needs a drink...or needs snuggled. I'm ok with that. I'm ok with our sleep patterns and what we choose as a family. I don't know if I believe CIO is harmful but I know I don't like it. My DD had horrible colic, she cried a lot, she slept terrible, she was a high needs baby and is a high needs child. I've adjusted to her needs and I meet them as often and sincerely as I can. Believe me, I know crying. There's something comforting about knowing I'm holding her and rocking her when she cries. That I'm there for her. Not being a martyr, being the parent I choose to be. What other people do is up to them. I think the original poster will find your groove when you need to. Parenthood is less than ideal and we make choices one way or another as we see fit. All this "research" tends to go to the back of your mind in the throws of parenting.

[macksmom]

I don't see anyone calling parents unprepared or selfish. In my post I was simply ranting about some people's obsession with a full night's sleep, especially when they have a newborn. When you have a baby expect to not sleep for at least the first year. If you have a great sleeper, good for you. If not there is little you can do. If your child needs a little help to settle, fine. I am just tired of hearing parents whine about lack of sleep. There are a lot of things you sacrifice when you become a parent. Sleep is one of them. If you choose to "sleep train" your child at an appropriate age and with an appropriate method, good for you. I am talking about the people who think if you hold your 1 month old all day you are spoiling her, or who will sleep train infants because "they need to learn to self soothe".

I just saw this story on my local news channel. It was literally 20 seconds long with text printed across the top of the screen "OK to cry to sleep" showing video clips of ONLY crying newborns. IMO that is misleading, irresponsible and dangerous.

[Linzo]

I don't practice CIO in my house and I won't ever. DD wasn't that kind of child and quite frankly there is nothing more disturbing to me than letting a child cry and then eventually walking in and see their terrified, bewildered face. It's truly awful. My DD is 3 and still rarely sleeps through the night as I don't either. She gets up to pee or needs a drink...or needs snuggled. I'm ok with that. I'm ok with our sleep patterns and what we choose as a family. I don't know if I believe CIO is harmful but I know I don't like it. My DD had horrible colic, she cried a lot, she slept terrible, she was a high needs baby and is a high needs child. I've adjusted to her needs and I meet them as often and sincerely as I can. Believe me, I know crying. There's something comforting about knowing I'm holding her and rocking her when she cries. That I'm there for her. Not being a martyr, being the parent I choose to be. What other people do is up to them. I think the original poster will find your groove when you need to. Parenthood is less than ideal and we make choices one way or another as we see fit. All this "research" tends to go to the back of your mind in the throws of parenting.

Completely agreed!

[i.<3.cheesysmiles]

I don't practice CIO in my house and I won't ever. DD wasn't that kind of child and quite frankly there is nothing more disturbing to me than letting a child cry and then eventually walking in and see their terrified, bewildered face. It's truly awful. My DD is 3 and still rarely sleeps through the night as I don't either. She gets up to pee or needs a drink...or needs snuggled. I'm ok with that. I'm ok with our sleep patterns and what we choose as a family. I don't know if I believe CIO is harmful but I know I don't like it. My DD had horrible colic, she cried a lot, she slept terrible, she was a high needs baby and is a high needs child. I've adjusted to her needs and I meet them as often and sincerely as I can. Believe me, I know crying. There's something comforting about knowing I'm holding her and rocking her when she cries. That I'm there for her. Not being a martyr, being the parent I choose to be. What other people do is up to them. I think the original poster will find your groove when you need to. Parenthood is less than ideal and we make choices one way or another as we see fit. All this "research" tends to go to the back of your mind in the throws of parenting.

I completely agree, too.

[Sakura]

Since many people regard ANY sleep training as "CIO," the discussion is usually moot. (e.g., A few posters have said that they don't let their children cry EVER.)

Personally, I wouldn't let a kid cry for hours unattended. Not even Dr. Ferber, who's incorrectly labelled as "CIO" by detractors (most of whom have never read his book), advocates that choice. I just don't understand that, if for no other reason than it doesn't seem to teach the child that he/she can control his/her own sleep (which is the point). I don't think that those parents are evil; I simply don't think it's effective. (But I haven't tried it so who knows. Maybe for some kids, it's the right decision.)

For us, though, Dr. Ferber's book was hugely helpful with our son. The science that he explained made us understand exactly what we were doing wrong (rocking him to near-sleep) and why he was having problems (night waking, at almost the same time every evening). We used his techniques, and it took just four short nights. (He threw up two of those nights. After that, never again.) He was a happier kid because he slept better. He still sleeps better. The few meltdowns that we'd had disappeared. As I've said before, our only regrets were that we didn't do it sooner. (And certainly, my kid isn't stressed or not bonded or feeling that his parents don't have his back. Those are absurd presumptions. Rather, thanks to sleep training - and untraining the dependent habits that we'd unknowingly taught him - he knows that when it's time to go to bed, he can accomplish this basic task by himself. He knows that he doesn't need mommy or daddy to rock or soothe him to sleep. And if he wakes up at night - which we all do - he can roll over and fall back to sleep without our help.)

Same here, particularly with our twins.

[emma1978]

Every family and every child is different. Both my children wakeup 1-3 times per night (my almost 6 months old is up at least 3 times every night and i work at least 50 hrs per week). I could never let them cio. Sometimes they are just hungry... How would cio help??

[ibisgirldc]

I'm not aware of anyone who recommends "CIO" (however you define it) for a 6 month old. Someone like Dr Ferber would recommend certain sleep techniques to promote healthy sleep patterns (e.g., sticking with a routine every night, not putting the baby to bed asleep). Clearly, a baby who needs to be fed needs to be fed.

[Cosmosmom]

I just saw this story on my local news channel. It was literally 20 seconds long with text printed across the top of the screen "OK to cry to sleep" showing video clips of ONLY crying newborns. IMO that is misleading, irresponsible and dangerous.

That would be a problem of the media....not the study and not the journal it was published it. That made it clear that they were not talking about newborns.

[macksmom]

That would be a problem of the media....not the study and not the journal it was published it. That made it clear that they were not talking about newborns.

I realize that but it doesn't matter when it comes down to the thousands of people who saw that same clip and didn't bother to seek out the study or it's journal. Besides according to the link that was posted the sample size was 225 which is extremely small. I am not saying people shouldn't use a method they have studied or researched.....I am talking about dumb @ss people who let their infants CIO because they were told to do so by others (without doing their own research) or because they have their own idiotic ideas about what babies should or should not be doing.

[CoffeeCat]

I'm not aware of anyone who recommends "CIO" (however you define it) for a 6 month old. Someone like Dr Ferber would recommend certain sleep techniques to promote healthy sleep patterns (e.g., sticking with a routine every night, not putting the baby to bed asleep). Clearly, a baby who needs to be fed needs to be fed.

I don't want to speak for macksmom, but I think she is referring to parents/grandparents' attitudes that she has encountered, not a sleep professional like Dr. Ferber when she talks about unrealistic expectations of sleep/parenthood, especially when referring to the newborn period. I too have heard the same sort of message that babies "should" sleep through the night at a very young age coming from laypeople. I have not read Dr. Ferber's book, personally, but my parents read the original edition of his book in the '80s and used some aspects of it on my siblings and I. He has updated it since then, so they probably followed the more "hard-core" version, even, and I don't think my siblings and I are any less bonded to our parents, at least for that reason. My dad worked odd hours-rotating third and first shifts and he was the sole provider in our family-they couldn't have kids in and out of their full size bed all night. I think they balanced responding to our needs with their own, and I respect that-I don't feel like they were negligent, misguided, etc.

In my own parenting journey, I happened to find Dr. Sears before Dr. Ferber, and it helped me to not feel guilt about doing the ONLY things that worked for my 1st high-needs baby. I kept getting this message that it was BECAUSE I was holding her and soothing her that she was continuing to cry and needed me to comfort her, and now, having had 2 more kids, I will never ever ever agree that this was the case. She was not that way because I was hovering, nervous, or a control-freak perfectionist who thrives on needing to be needed. That is pretty much what my mother-in-law thought, and made it very clear. Unfortunately I still sometimes get that vibe from parents who are defensive of their choices which were different from mine, as if everyone who uses AP techniques is some elitist Momster who loves to recite their brag list of how much they have given up for their child, at the obvious expense of their marriage and sanity. Yeah, that's not me at all!

I didn't MAKE my kid clingy and high needs anymore than someone who is blessed with an easy baby can take credit for that. She was just born that way. She is still an extremely sensitive child who has a hard time tuning out stimulation, and it's clear that it's not just nurture at work there, it's nature. Her siblings are very different even though they are experiencing a very similar upbringing and environment. I was used to doing things the way I did with Jenna, so that's what I did with them-carrying them around with me, co-sleeping, etc., but they both could pretty much take it or leave it. They both would let me put them down in a swing if I wanted to. They both can sleep most of the night in a separate sleep space. They both are pretty much indifferent to things that deeply affected our first child, like traveling in the car, a certain routine, etc. Some might say I was shooting myself in the foot to not take advantage of the fact that they were "easier" and we didn't change up my approach, but...what can I say...if it ain't broke and everyone in our family was cool with it/used to it...why "fix it"?

I think like macksmom mentioned, my true issue-the thing that irks me most-isn't whether someone chooses to implement bedtime strategies that are more structured than my own, it's when there is a lot of misinformation circulating about what "normal" is in young humans' sleep patterns/behavior. Well-informed parents who lovingly do what is best for their child by researching and implementing a sleep schedule/sleep training/whatever you want to call it aren't the high-risk group in my mind, it's those who get a half-formed concept of what this study might mean.

[tiggerlb]

I don't agree with doing it to a new born. I did however let Suzie cry to go to sleep I only had to do it about a week til I got her on the right sleeping schedule She was 4 months old when I started it. She would stay up all night and sleep well during the day. I did go to her about every 20 min and if she just went to the horrible scream cring I would go to her right away. I also started this with Amber when she was 18 months old she did not sleep through the night all the way to this point. I think at like 4 to 5 months it is okay to an extent espically when you are just trying to get the right sleep pattern (night time) Otherewise I was fine with getting up about evey 5 hrs during my sleep. Suzie does sleep at night now and wakes after about 5 hrs for a bottle then will go back to sleep for another 5 hrs. It worked out. She is a very happy little girl. She just smiles when ever you speak or look at her.

[ibisgirldc]

Re: Coffeecat's post - First, my comment was a response to the post above mine, by emma 1978. She asked a question that was my answer. Also, most of what you describe isn't, at least from what I can see, about sleep training; that's about crying and old-fashioned attitudes about whether to pick up a crying baby. They're unrelated topics - although it seems to be a common misconception that they're the same thing.

[CoffeeCat]

To be told that I *shouldn't* do what works for my baby, whether it is holding them, nursing them, etc. day or night, because A) I'm spoiling them ("old-fashioned misconception") or B) because they won't learn to self-soothe (central tenet of most sleep training manuals) elicit similar feelings of annoyance in me. Perhaps they are not related in your mind and coming from your perspective and experience with your child but to say that it's a "misconception" to compare the two situations is a bit dismissive.

[ibisgirldc]

To be told that I *shouldn't* do what works for my baby, whether it is holding them, nursing them, etc. day or night, because A) I'm spoiling them ("old-fashioned misconception") or B) because they won't learn to self-soothe (central tenet of most sleep training manuals) elicit similar feelings of annoyance in me. Perhaps they are not related in your mind and coming from your perspective and experience with your child but to say that it's a "misconception" to compare the two situations is a bit dismissive.

I think you may be reading too much into my statement, perhaps due to the negative experiences that you've described. Simply put, though, sleep training (such as Dr Ferber's techniques, which are the ones most typically [albeit incorrectly] described on this site and the blogosphere as "CIO") has nothing to do with not "spoiling" or not picking up a crying baby or not doing AP or even about not co-sleeping if that's what you choose to do. People, including those in this thread, seem to think that they're the same thing, but they're not.

I have no idea what silly advice random people or nosy family members give regarding crying during the day or about feeding babies/toddlers/children. Again, the science-based sleep techniques such as those described in Dr Ferber's book don't comment on any of those things. In fact, they don't really comment about crying much at all. The "crying" part is only a tiny, short, controlled piece of the whole training program, if it happens at all, in 1/3/5 or 3/5/7 minute intervals for a few evenings. It's always with soothing and parental attention provided. One doesn't ignore the child and there's no concern about "spoiling" one's kid. There's nothing that suggests that one should use the "crying" part with an infant (actually, I think that he says NOT to do that with infants, but I don't recall for sure. We didn't do it until 15 mos or so.) or that one should force a child out of their normal cycle of feedings. Nothing that says that one shouldn't pick up a colicky or crying baby, etc. Whoever is giving that advice to you may be combining the two concepts, but they're mislabeling.

Anyway, who's saying what you "shouldn't" do? (aside from your confused inlaws) If anything, this thread is a rejection (vilification?) of the few of us who do (or who will admit to) sleep training their children. It's not like people who have successfully used Dr Ferber's techniques (or other sleep training models) are proselytizing about sleep methodology. lol, if anything, we tend to keep quiet because the reaction is usually "OMG!!!! I'd never do anything so horrible..."

[RachelB]

The title of this article shows gross incompetence, IMO. I don't think CIO is okay is the actual finding of the study, and should NOT be put out there as a study finding.

What I got out of reading the article was that parents who practiced structured sleep intervention techniques had children that were similar to children of parents who had no training in the techniques. There isn't any mention of documentation of which methods the parents in the control group used, if any. It's a junk study, in my opinion.

For what it's worth, I'm against CIO if you mean: turn the monitor off, turn the tv up and let the kid cry till they pass out or puke, no matter what. I am not opposed to structured techniques to help your child learn good sleep habbits, we used them with DS. It was difficult, but it worked for us.

[Mom22]

CIO as a blanket term is kind of unfair because it encompasses so much and people think it is just leaving your kid screaming for hours and hours alone. We did the Sleep Easy Solution with DS after trying EVERYTHING. We were in sleep hell. It worked. He is a great sleeper now and did not suffer any trauma from it. My parents did "CIO" with my sisters and I and we turned out more than OK. I think you have to do what works for your family and ignore all these studies because you can find a study that says pretty much everything. JMO.