Another PTing Question...

[Krystal5]

All the posts recently about potty training have got me thinking... I know I have at least a year or so before I need to worry about this, but since it's been a hot topic, figured I'd ask now, as it's on my mind!

I have pretty much done EVERYTHING very gently and baby-led. Baby led weaning, solids, sleeping alone, all that. I let her set the pace and neither incentivise (is that a word?) (though obviously I praise and get excited) nor scold her.

I want to do something like that for potty training. I'm in NO RUSH for her to get out of diapers. First, they're cute (cloth). Second, we are out and about a LOT, and a lot of places where there is no toilet or it's only an out house, and I don't really want her going in the bushes (hello poison oak where the sun don't shine...) or to be carrying around a portable potty chair. I also don't really want her on nasty public toilets. And, I'm in no rush for her to grow up and become a "kid" any faster than she already is!

Now, I know that that might change in a year or two, and I would probably feel differently if I had two in diapers (what I wouldn't have given for that...), but at this point in time, I'm in no rush.

With that said, I would be fine if she went to kindergarten in diapers, because I figure then she'll have peer pressure and start using it in a few days.

BUT, after reading about everyone's issues and how they're pushing it and stuff, I'm beginning to wonder if I'm way off on my logic. Will NOT PTing (at all, really) and just letting her do it when she's ready cause issues? Will it allow her to form bad habits, or maybe get her horribly ridiculed at school or something??

And by not PTing, I mean, when I imagine this in my head, it will have no "incentives" or sticker chart or bribes or anything. Just a "you peed / pooped in the potty!" and maybe a happy potty dance or something when she does it on her own. And then, if she does PT herself, but then regresses (as seems to happen a lot), it would be no big deal, I'd just put her back in diapers until she's ready again.

Like I said, I'm mostly just worried that I would be allowing her to form bad habits if I went about it this way, since NO ONE else seems to. I even googled this topic (I'm really bad at googling...), and the only things I could find was EC, which is not at all what I'm talking about!

Thanks!

[AbbeysMom]

We parent very gently as well, and I would say waiting until she's 'ready' is completely a part of that! I'm not sure if you'll be able to get her to use the potty and really learn without some incentives or active teaching, but I think part of doing things with a "baby-led" mentality is to play it by ear and tailor what you do for what your child ends up needing. She might have a really easy and slow transition to pottying on the toilet and it might work great for her and you, or she could end up needing all the fanfare of rewards, songs, books, and general hype about being a 'big kid'. IMO I wouldn't worry about it, but just take cues from her and let her explore pottying at her own pace until you see she wants/needs to learn, since it seems to work well for you both!

[Bridget]

I think you're on the right track. She will need some guidance for sure but rewards are absolutely not necessary, especially if you are in no rush. I used them for Savana because I was always worried that she was 3 and not potty trained but I had chilled out by the time Kai was that age and I never used rewards for him and don't plan to with Sawyer. But nothing is ever set in stone to these sorts of things.

[JJorn]

I think that a lot will depend on your child's personality. Most kindergartens do not allow children to come in diapers - they have to be using the potty. A lot of programs by us also require a potty trained child starting at age three.

[tmbg1022]

Child led potty training is perfectly fine. It worked incredibly well with my daughter. She decided one day that she was going to pee on the potty. It was way too simple! Not that DH and I weren't grateful for the simplicity.

Now would be a great time to get a little potty and/or a potty seat for the toilet. Have it in the bathroom and let her sit on it if she wants. When you think it is appropriate ask her if she wants to sit on her potty while you sit on the big one. At some point get a couple of books ("Potty" by Leslie Patricelli is a great one there's another, I'll update if I can remember it) and add them to her bookshelf. That way you are giving her the tools she needs to potty train (learn) on her own time. No need for rewards or pushing.

We got DD potty stuff when she was about 19 months old and almost exactly 6 months later she decided to pee on the potty. Literally one day she did a sort of potty dance, DH asked if she wanted to pee on the potty, she took her diaper off and peed on the potty, we left her diaper off and about 30 minutes later she went to the bathroom again, by herself. That was pretty much it.

As much as you want your little one to stay in diapers (underpants can be really cute too!) she will need to potty train sometime and she may really enjoy giving up diapers. Also, it's true that kindergarten will not accept a kid in diapers and I don't know of any preschools that will either. Setting her up with what she needs to do it when she's ready will at least give her the opportunity to try it.

[Ditty]

I think you might be interested in potty learning opposed to potty training. I don't know for sure. I have not researched it and the term (potty learning) rubs me the wrong way. You definitely do not need to use incentives and you can take as long as you want (or your DD wants). We did not use incentives when it finally clicked for DD. I think it was the first thing that she has done where her pride was practically palpable. She would sit on the potty and you could tell by her sweet smile how proud she was of herself.

I don't think your method will cause any issues unless you are planning on preschool or are around a lot of other kids often. Preschool because the preschools around her require the child to be potty trained. Other kids because they might make your DD feel bad for still being in diapers. That is something that I would worry about, but probably would not be an issue at all. Good luck and there really is no rush if you and DD are fine with it.

[AbbeysMom]

I think you might be interested in potty learning opposed to potty training. I don't know for sure. I have not researched it and the term (potty learning) rubs me the wrong way. You definitely do not need to use incentives and you can take as long as you want (or your DD wants). We did not use incentives when it finally clicked for DD. I think it was the first thing that she has done where her pride was practically palpable. She would sit on the potty and you could tell by her sweet smile how proud she was of herself.

I don't think your method will cause any issues unless you are planning on preschool or are around a lot of other kids often. Preschool because the preschools around her require the child to be potty trained. Other kids because they might make your DD feel bad for still being in diapers. That is something that I would worry about, but probably would not be an issue at all. Good luck and there really is no rush if you and DD are fine with it.

I was under the impression that the term potty learning was just another way of saying potty training without the word "training" because it sounded like training animals.

[Krystal5]

Thanks for the feedback!

Oh yes, we are certainly introducing her to the idea. She's had a potty chair since she was a few months old (I entertained the idea of EC, didn't like it), and always watches me go (oh, joy...). We've read books, watched a few videos, and talk about it all the time. She sits on the potty when she wants to, and has even peed in it. She knows the theory, she's just not ready.

Really, a child will be banned from kindergarten if they're not potty trained?? That seems really wrong to me... What happened to "no child left behind"??

[caitlinsmommy]

Thanks for the feedback!

Oh yes, we are certainly introducing her to the idea. She's had a potty chair since she was a few months old (I entertained the idea of EC, didn't like it), and always watches me go (oh, joy...). We've read books, watched a few videos, and talk about it all the time. She sits on the potty when she wants to, and has even peed in it. She knows the theory, she's just not ready.

Really, a child will be banned from kindergarten if they're not potty trained?? That seems really wrong to me... What happened to "no child left behind"??

I definitely don't know for sure...but I think that the idea is they don't want teachers having to change diapers because of possible legal ramifications now. I have heard this numerous times.

[DucksLikeRain]

Unless she's protected by an IEP or other legal document she cannot go to kindergarten-or most public preschools-in diapers or training pants. But I think worrying about that is a bit premature

We didn't PT Keira at all. She was familiar with the toilet, with the terms pee and poop, with the fact that mom and dad didn't wear "bappers" (her word for diapers). We did put her on it when we knew she was working on something in her diaper but it was no big deal. She wanted panties, we did panties. When it became obvious she didn't actually want to use the toilet, just wanted the underwear, we took them away and explained if she wanted to wear them she had to try to use the toilet. She didn't care to. Then one day, with us not havin addressed the topic in months, she got up from a nap having dressed herself and her sister in underwear...and that was that. She hasn't had more than five accidents since the -she was just a few days shy of 3. Scharae took a few weeks, mostly she just was copying her sister, sitting on our toilet every time k went on theirs, and eventually she had it down pretty well also.

So no, I don't think it's a bad thing to not do any more than provide the tools and opportunities. Some kids probably need much more direction, but most will get it all on their own regardless of hands off parent strategies.

[Bridget]

Not to mention she would be humiliated going to kindy in a diaper. I thought you were kidding when you said that!
I find it very hard to imagine that any child of normal development provided with the tools and encouragement to use the bathroom with still be in diapers at five years old so definitely not something I would worry about.

[pepperlru]

We tend to do most parenting slowly/gently/whenever too (heck, she's 2.5 and I still don't know when we're going to phase out nursing/cosleeping). We've been pretty low-key with the potty -- had one in our bathroom, let her sit on it when she felt like it, read some books about it (totally 2nd the Potty book by Leslie Patricelli! dd loves that one!!). We did recently decide to kick it up a notch by having her go naked in the house and making her potties very available. One reason was just to see if she seemed ready (she's doing well, at least when she doesn't have pants on), but there were a few other things that made me want to give it a try now.

1) I'm getting sick of washing diapers, and some of her stash is getting pretty worn out. I really don't want to buy new dipes for just another few months of use. When I say I'm getting sick of washing, part of it is because since we got an HE washer, the routine to get them really clean has gotten a lot longer, and I have to strip more often. The routine also uses more water, and I know it's a lot more than she would use flushing the toilet a few times per day, so the environmental impact has a little influence there.

2) She's getting to the size where clothes are no longer cut for diapers. I do make most of her pants, but since she is quite tall and slim, cutting them with a bunch of room in the rear is going to make them pretty saggy when she's done with diapers, so now that I'm making her summer wardrobe I have to think about that. And when we buy clothes, most of the bottoms don't fit right with a dipe underneath.

3) I have noticed some discreet eyebrows etc from other moms (the kids don't seem to notice or care, since she's not even 3, but the mothers are another story). Unfortunately, I've noticed this *especially* in the "natural parenting" community where most of our friends/activities are. I think some of it might be because lots of folks in the community do at least partial EC and their kids are out of diapers super early. I know I shouldn't let it sway me, but I've felt a little self-conscious about the few comments I've gotten re "Oh, she's still in diapers?" And cloth is more conspicuous because it's bulkier, yk? (NOT that I would push her to train if she wasn't ready due to this at all ... I'm just being honest that when I started seeing if she was ready, that was one of the reasons.)

4) As others have mentioned, most preschool programs won't take a kid in dipes. I don't know if we're doing any preschool in the fall, but even some of the community programs I've looked at have that requirement.

[Ditty]

I was under the impression that the term potty learning was just another way of saying potty training without the word "training" because it sounded like training animals.

Probably is. I just googled potty training vs. potty learning and there were a bunch of hits. The impression I just got from the first couple of sites is that potty training is something done by an adult to a child while potty learning is more child led.

[babykenny]

Eamon expressed interest in the potty at home and we put him on and he just naturally had a sense of pride in seeing it there. The only incentive we used was positive reinforcement, and encouragement - never disappointment if it didn't happen. I'd praise him for trying, or being patient to sit and wait to see if he could go. If he went, I'd give a big "yeah!!!!!" and soon he'd jump up and exclaim it before I even had a chance to see in there. I could see he was proud of his accomplishment!

Not to be weird, but DS loves dumping his own #1's in the potty and flushing the toilet. Who knew flushing was such a great honor?!?!

And yes, they will not take a kindergartner who hasn't been potty trained/learned/whatever. But you seem like you are going with the natural flow, and there's no reason this won't happen naturally too.

[Krystal5]

Unless she's protected by an IEP or other legal document she cannot go to kindergarten-or most public preschools-in diapers or training pants. But I think worrying about that is a bit premature

We didn't PT Keira at all. She was familiar with the toilet, with the terms pee and poop, with the fact that mom and dad didn't wear "bappers" (her word for diapers). We did put her on it when we knew she was working on something in her diaper but it was no big deal. She wanted panties, we did panties. When it became obvious she didn't actually want to use the toilet, just wanted the underwear, we took them away and explained if she wanted to wear them she had to try to use the toilet. She didn't care to. Then one day, with us not havin addressed the topic in months, she got up from a nap having dressed herself and her sister in underwear...and that was that. She hasn't had more than five accidents since the -she was just a few days shy of 3. Scharae took a few weeks, mostly she just was copying her sister, sitting on our toilet every time k went on theirs, and eventually she had it down pretty well also.

So no, I don't think it's a bad thing to not do any more than provide the tools and opportunities. Some kids probably need much more direction, but most will get it all on their own regardless of hands off parent strategies.

Oh, I'm definitely not worried. Like I said, it's just on my mind because of all the recent potty training posts. Just curious, really!

Though I am shocked that a public school can turn a kid away for any reason. I mean, it's PUBLIC school. I knew some daycares wouldn't take kids not potty trained, but I thought it was laziness. I thought public school children were protected.

But I guess it makes sense... I had bladder surgery just before I went to 1st grade. I had essentially been "potty trained", but I never went pee (like, literally, once a week). After the surgery I basically had to become potty trained for real- and the school made no accomodations (really all I needed was permission to leave for the bathroom immediately as I had NO bladder control). I had many, many accidents for months, and was completely humiliated. I kind of wish my parents had put me in diapers instead!! But I guess it's this law that protected the teacher from needing to let me do anything special... JERKS!!!

That's amazing about your girls, and is a lot of what I'm hoping for with Maiya! Guess we'll see what she's like when the time comes.

Not to mention she would be humiliated going to kindy in a diaper. I thought you were kidding when you said that!
I find it very hard to imagine that any child of normal development provided with the tools and encouragement to use the bathroom with still be in diapers at five years old so definitely not something I would worry about.

Hahah, I was sort of kidding. It was kind of tongue in cheek, I guess. Because I know that, like you said, kids with normal development will be potty trained by then, so I'm not really worried. I guess it's my version of the "he won't be nursing when he goes to college!" quote...

We tend to do most parenting slowly/gently/whenever too (heck, she's 2.5 and I still don't know when we're going to phase out nursing/cosleeping). We've been pretty low-key with the potty -- had one in our bathroom, let her sit on it when she felt like it, read some books about it (totally 2nd the Potty book by Leslie Patricelli! dd loves that one!!). We did recently decide to kick it up a notch by having her go naked in the house and making her potties very available. One reason was just to see if she seemed ready (she's doing well, at least when she doesn't have pants on), but there were a few other things that made me want to give it a try now.

1) I'm getting sick of washing diapers, and some of her stash is getting pretty worn out. I really don't want to buy new dipes for just another few months of use. When I say I'm getting sick of washing, part of it is because since we got an HE washer, the routine to get them really clean has gotten a lot longer, and I have to strip more often. The routine also uses more water, and I know it's a lot more than she would use flushing the toilet a few times per day, so the environmental impact has a little influence there.

2) She's getting to the size where clothes are no longer cut for diapers. I do make most of her pants, but since she is quite tall and slim, cutting them with a bunch of room in the rear is going to make them pretty saggy when she's done with diapers, so now that I'm making her summer wardrobe I have to think about that. And when we buy clothes, most of the bottoms don't fit right with a dipe underneath.

3) I have noticed some discreet eyebrows etc from other moms (the kids don't seem to notice or care, since she's not even 3, but the mothers are another story). Unfortunately, I've noticed this *especially* in the "natural parenting" community where most of our friends/activities are. I think some of it might be because lots of folks in the community do at least partial EC and their kids are out of diapers super early. I know I shouldn't let it sway me, but I've felt a little self-conscious about the few comments I've gotten re "Oh, she's still in diapers?" And cloth is more conspicuous because it's bulkier, yk? (NOT that I would push her to train if she wasn't ready due to this at all ... I'm just being honest that when I started seeing if she was ready, that was one of the reasons.)

4) As others have mentioned, most preschool programs won't take a kid in dipes. I don't know if we're doing any preschool in the fall, but even some of the community programs I've looked at have that requirement.

Yes, yes, I would not be surprised at all if I got tired of washing diapers and that motivated me to try to PT her! At this point it's not a big deal, but give it some time... She's also not in cloth full time, so that probably helps...

Oh, had never even thought about #2... Maiya is in pretty much all 3Ts now, but just got there, so things are still a bit big on her. I wouldn't be surprised if soon we hit that issue, too- especially with the cloth! Good point...

Interesting about #3. No one in our play group / social circle did EC, and NONE of them (unless you count Soren!) are even close to PTing, even though some are closer to Noe's age, so I don't think that will be a point for us any time soon, but it is a good point.

ETA: Maiya loves running around naked, so she gets a lot of naked / bare bottom time, and we always have a potty here. It's the only time she's actually used the potty. It's also how I know she's not ready! And I'm hoping that it will help me to catch when she is and encourage it if she needs.

Eamon expressed interest in the potty at home and we put him on and he just naturally had a sense of pride in seeing it there. The only incentive we used was positive reinforcement, and encouragement - never disappointment if it didn't happen. I'd praise him for trying, or being patient to sit and wait to see if he could go. If he went, I'd give a big "yeah!!!!!" and soon he'd jump up and exclaim it before I even had a chance to see in there. I could see he was proud of his accomplishment!

Not to be weird, but DS loves dumping his own #1's in the potty and flushing the toilet. Who knew flushing was such a great honor?!?!

And yes, they will not take a kindergartner who hasn't been potty trained/learned/whatever. But you seem like you are going with the natural flow, and there's no reason this won't happen naturally too.

Yeah, this is pretty much what I have in mind. I'm basically doing that even now, it just doesn't happen much!

And Maiya totally agrees with Eamon- the best reward is getting to FLUSH!!




Thanks everyone!

[DucksLikeRain]

Oh, I'm definitely not worried. Like I said, it's just on my mind because of all the recent potty training posts. Just curious, really!

Though I am shocked that a public school can turn a kid away for any reason. I mean, it's PUBLIC school. I knew some daycares wouldn't take kids not potty trained, but I thought it was laziness. I thought public school children were protected.

But I guess it makes sense... I had bladder surgery just before I went to 1st grade. I had essentially been "potty trained", but I never went pee (like, literally, once a week). After the surgery I basically had to become potty trained for real- and the school made no accomodations (really all I needed was permission to leave for the bathroom immediately as I had NO bladder control). I had many, many accidents for months, and was completely humiliated. I kind of wish my parents had put me in diapers instead!! But I guess it's this law that protected the teacher from needing to let me do anything special...

That's so sad! You should have easily had a note from your doctor stating you needed to be allowed to get up and leave for the bathroom without permission at all times. I have one for Scharae which I haven't used because her teacher is awesome and responded positively when I talked to her about it and said not to worry about bringing the note in unless I felt the need to have it officially noted. (Scharae has discordant bladder muscles and has problems with just peeing little bits at a time and then leaking between. She's getting better with her muscle coordination but basically needs to be able to drop everything when she feels the slightest urge or she'll wet her pants)

[NHKate]

My DD is just a couple months older than yours, and our approach has been similar to yours. DD has always watched us use the bathroom. We introduced the potty early and we read books about it, etc, but there was never any pressure. When she was about 18 months, I started having her sit on the potty about once a day while we read books and played games that could be done while sitting there. When she was tired of sitting there, we got up (depending on the day, this time could last 5 minutes or half an hour). Eventually she happened to pee while she was sitting there and I made a big deal out of it, with lots of clapping, whoo-hoo's, yays and "Gimme 5!" After a few successes, she got the idea, but was still nowhere near potty trained. I just wanted her to have the knowledge already when she was ready. Since then, she's been an occasional peer on the potty, but very recently her interest has really ramped up. She's been asking to use the potty a lot more, even though she was wearing diapers. Now she's been asking to wear her undies - actually, not asking, just getting off the potty and going to her room and getting her undies and putting them on. She's done this before, and would have accidents right away, and I would just tell her she needed to wear diapers until she was ready to go on the potty every time. In the last few days, she's been much better about it. She only had one accident in her undies yesterday. Sometimes she will tell us when she needs to go on her own, other times I just tell her that I have to go, and ask if she wants to go too. She often says yes, but sometimes no. That said, I realize that DD developed the ability to hold her pee for hours at a time earlier than many kids do. She was waking up dry a lot of the time even as an infant (and even though she was nursing on and off all night). I don't think I would be willing to have her in undies so much of the time if she was peeing every hour or hour and a half, to be honest.

[Bec]

we have pretty much done exactly what you have with Piper. I'm not pushing it at all and she's potty learning herself. She showed an interest in it so I helped her on it a couple times, rewarded her when she went (m&m's or jelly beans). Then she just started doing it on her own. For the first week we did nekkid from the waist down and if she had to go she went, the second week I put some sun dresses on her so she could get used to having clothes on she'd have hold up while going and now we've moved on to panties. She's averages about one accident a day but has totally picked it up on her own. I was pretty blaise about training her at first because I didn't think she was ready... she showed me :/