It's interesting. When reading it, the first thing I thought about was working women. I am a SAHM, but I can imagine being a working mom, being out of the house all week and feeling the need to stay home on the weekends.
What was really interesting was the whole idea about society devaluing the importance of church. I completely agree. There are so many activities scheduled even for Sundays. DH played baseball before we had kids, and it was an all day Sunday event. From around 7/8 am until 5 pm during the summer. Plus, the league plays games where a lot of travel is needed. This was before we were attending church, too. He's been tossing around the idea of wanting to play again. I had to tell him my concerns about church. It is very difficult for me to go to church by myself with the 2 LOs since there are times where one of us needs to be down in the nursery for a part of the sermon since one or the other needs us. I had to ask him if he would consider going after church. Then, i said, I guess no one on the team goes to church? That is just one example. I feel like Sundays are not held to be days of worship, and then family, like they should be.
I am going to take a look around the next time I go to church and see, but from what I can recall in my mind, I think I remember seeing more women without their husbands than husbands alone.
Great point Lisa. For me it is really two folded. I have had issues finding a church due to childcare. I have either not had a good feeling from the volunteers working the rooms (scowling at me/not saying hi during drop-off) or I disagreed w/the "structure" of the room itself. (I have a problem w/there being a tv in the childcare room. I don't like my son watching tv, especially tv that I have not previewed and tbh I don't see why there needs to be a tv on during a Sunday service especially when each church that I have been to that has had one has had awesome, creative, imaginative toys in the room too.) The other side and I know that this is horrible, but I am going to be honest, is that I don't want to go w/o dh. I did that for a long time and tbh it makes me a little resentful. I was the one waking up early, getting our son ready, rushing to church, driving all the way there, etc and what did he get out of everything? three free hours of me time, something that I very, very, rarely ever have. We did go to our old church for the first time in for.ev.er on Sunday and although I really like the preaching, I just didn't feel connected. There were too many people there, etc. I really would like to find a church closer to our house.
Ive been thinking about this a bit. There were some good points in the article. I think technology is a big one. That has changed society in general as we know it. People don't meet or socialize like they used to. I'm no exception, look at us here on APA. Heck, I met my DH online. lol I know a lot of women who feel that connecting with a group of Christians online is as good as going to a church. I very much disagree with that.
I think the point about roles and leadership might be a pretty big one also, although there are many more liberal churches that already have accommodated women with that. I have a more conservative belief on that, so I disagree that changes should be made in that direction.
I think culturally women have taken on a lot more responsibility with work and home and social activities and church and crazy children's social/school schedules, etc., etc. There is the belief that we can "have it all" but I think that mentality is taking a toll and women are getting burned out. Church is an "easy" thing to let go of if its not pointedly made a priority.
Just a few of my thoughts for now.
~ Polly ~Married to my perfect match!
Loving my growing family!
Polly I met my DH online too! This forum is the closest thing I have to a circle of Christian friends. I was going to quit APA a while ago but this room kept calling me back. I don't have Christian friends since I moved to NC because I don't have a church. I have no real Christian interaction besides the intermittent family involvement. This is it.
Wow that sounded pathetic. I am really a sad sort of Christian, aren't I?!
I feel like this article was written about me. I have told DH that I am sick of begging him to go to church. I hate going alone. He is supposed to be the head of our house and he stays up too late to even wake up before noon. Bringing a 2 year old to church alone is next to impossible and I can't leave DD in an unknown nursery. I have been hurt in the church before (being told me gifts were not needed because I was female) and really cannot go through that again. I am Epsicolapian and DH is Presbyterian so that makes it harder to find somewhere where we both feel fed.
Wow. It is weird to have something like this hit so close to home but this atricle really did it to me. I don't know what else to say. Besides I really realize I need IRL Christians in my life too. This room is great but...wow. I really need a church, not matter how good the excuses I have are.
I have been blessed with a DH who loves the Lord as well so we both make it a priority to go to church each weekend. When two are in agreement, the one can always defeat the other's excuse. I have also gone by myself with the kids and it is a pain (my DH does do some travelling for work). But when you make it a priority to go to church, you get there no matter what else is going on or whatever excuse you have lined up. It is hard some weekends and Satan certainly wants us to forsake gathering together. You would not believe some of the things that have happened on Sunday as we are getting ready for church. We've even had to climb into our third story window to get our keys (this happened actually twice and only before church).
I can totally understand some of those excuses as I myself have wanted to use them. Getting together with other believers is SO important and I've felt such a void in my life when that wasn't happening.
As for what the article is saying, there have always been way more women attending church than men. Could it just be that women's attendance is going to be more even with the men's attendance? So in reality is it that the women that go to church by themselves (as in the husband stays home while wife and kids go) just aren't going anymore? If so, I think that is especially awful since it means that the children aren't going at all.
Jessica (32) and Ryan (31). Madelyn born August 5, 2009 and Malachi born December 23, 2010. Lost a loved baby 02/29/12, 05/14/12 and 07/05/12 all due a serious allergic reaction to fabric softener.
This is MY reason.Some men are not spiritually leading their wives.
Many women want to go to church, but their husbands don’t. I personally know of many, many women in this situation. Maybe the woman married an unbeliever, or maybe she & her husband have different styles of worshipping. Either way, if a woman feels she has to beg and plead with her husband to go to church, she may just give up altogether. I cannot tell you the many conversations I have had with brokenhearted wives who show up at church alone. It takes a lot of strength to continue going to church, especially with your children, without the support of your spouse. Men, it’s time to step up.
And the worst part is that DH wouldn't even hesitate to let me do "bad" things, things against "our" religious view or behave badly, again, against "our" religious view. But he makes the church seem soooo evil and wrong because the people there are a bunch of hippocrits he can't stand. Yet still, "he" made me one of them!
I think the article missed a big one. One that contributes to me leaving churches repeatedly.
IMO, alot of the church's teachings are sexist. I found it odd that the article didnt mention that (unless I missed it?). Whether or not the author thinks it is true, I know alot of women who don't want to go because of that feeling.
To me, the article seemed to blame women for why they are not going(women are too relational, women need to be led) instead of taking a long hard look at the church.
This article made me count my blessings. DH and I share the same beliefs (though I do wish he would do Wednesday night services with me now that Lent has begun). Our church has a fantastic nursery to drop fussy kids off during service (there IS a tv, but it is just of the service going on upstairs so the adults can continue to follow along), and even though we are Missouri synod Lutheran (quite conservative in the string of things), our particular church allows women to do anything the synod has ok'd the church to do - ei serving communion which is so new to our synod.
I think part of it now though is we are coming in to a new generation that has not been taught to put themselves in any discomfort. If they go to a church and don't feel comfortable IMMEDIATELY, they IMMEDIATELY drop it. It took ME putting in the effort to get involved in a specific activity to meet enough people and feel like I belonged. A lot of people in general (not just women) don't want to put in that effort.
One last thought: Christianity is really the only belief system that is socially "allowed" to be mocked and ridiculed in the media. If a Muslim or Jew objects to something based on their religion, we all feel the effects (Halloween was banned at my elementary school because ONE family objected to dressing up as ghosts and witches based on their religion) but if a Christian objects to something, we are told to suck it up. It's frustrating. No one will bad-mouth their own religion like Christians do either though.
Rae (27), DH (26), Lucas (6/3/12), #2 due in December
That was an interesting article. I'm not sure how it would be for our family if DH wasn't going to church. Now that I'm established at the church it feels like a family, but when I was new if it was just me and not DH it would definitely be harder.
Something that was kind of touched on was the fact that women are busier these days; I have definitely felt as a working woman a bit of an outsider. The mens groups always have a mens fellowship option at 6-6:30AM to accomodate a work schedule, but the womens group meet at like 10AM on Mondays. There is also a large homeschooling group in my church; it lends to the feeling that a lot of the the women know each other really well, have a long history with each other, and on Sunday's they tend to socialize within their groups. When I mentioned a womens bible group early in the morning I got some funny looks. With my work schedule, I have a much easier time commiting to something early in the morning when my interaction with DD is limited (because DH can take her to daycare) vs during the day or in the evening.
I think as more women are in the workplace either by choice or necessity this could be become a bigger influence. As women we crave intimate relationships (correct me if I'm wrong, don't mean to make sweeping statements on behalf of everyone here), and when your time is limited you might tend towards making time for a close girlfriend vs. fostering a host of new relationships through the church. The biggest issue with this is the relationship we should be fostering the most is our relationship with Christ, and part of that, at least for me, comes from hearing God's word preached and having some chance for contact with other strong Christians. But that is looking back in hindsight; it's difficult as an immature Christian to recognize the importance of church. I know I went through a phase during which I was feeling pretty dejected and isolated and thought about looking for another church where I might click with the women there better. If DH hadn't been going to church with me I might have stopped going there; it's hard to say. Either way, I'm glad that I have a church "family" now; the pastor's wife even offered to watch my daughter if I needed to fly across the country to be with my DH (whose back went out last week and was hospitalized and eventually needed surgery). There are also a group of women who like to run, including the pastors wife, and occasionally we sign up for running races together so I've found a bit of a niche there. Have any of you felt this?
I have yet to find my own niche in our church. We go to the church we go to because DH's grandparents started the church and his entire family, plus an aunt's family are still members there. When DH's gma passes away, we started going to church with his gpa to support him. (I am his favorite grand-daughter-in-law he says and he introduces me as a grandchild -- and I think it's because I got DH back into the church and suggested we go with his gpa). So our social circle at church is based around his gpa (called the George Washington of the congregation), his aunt who now comes, and old friends of the family. No one our age, but I'm hoping that when we have our LO, we'll get to know other parents better.
Rae (27), DH (26), Lucas (6/3/12), #2 due in December
Yes, I do have a niche at my church. I serve as a sign language interpreter for the Deaf members of our congregation. I go to a fairly big church, with 4 services over the weekend. The people I serve and serve with, and their families, have become my close church family. I love my church as a whole, but that circle of people are who personally know me and are my accountability and support. I honestly believe one of the best ways to get plugged in to a church is to think of ways to get involved and serve other people, rather than thinking of how the church can serve you. I know, I know... that sounds like the JFK quote. lol
~ Polly ~
Amen.Originally Posted by KC's wifey
Sometimes I wonder, as the church in America, if we've kind of lost our way. This, from Acts 2, is how many of the first believers did church/community/fellowship: 42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. 43 And awe came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. 44 And all who believed were together and had all things in common. 45 And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. 46 And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people.
Amanda, DH
Jesus leads by example in John 13: 14 Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet. 15 I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. 16 Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.
The church is not meant to serve us, but we are meant to serve the church and each other. I fall way short on this, but you ladies have given me something to think about.
Rae (27), DH (26), Lucas (6/3/12), #2 due in December
Oh I absolutely believe this. I volunteer at our nursery, but it doesn't feel like enough. I told them to put me on the schedule more often and I skip service to stay if the baby/volunteer ratio seems high, but it doesn't feel like enough. When I pick up my dd at the end of service I usually put all my stuff down and help disinfect and organize and tear down. I cook dinners when asked for families with newborns and deliver them and I live 30 minutes away from the neighborhood where our church is at. But we've been going to our church for 4 years, and I've been volunteering at the nursery for 2.5, but recently someone asked me if we were newcomers. And this is where it feels like the limitations lie, there are the ways to volunteer on Sundays (which I do), and the ways to help out during the week; either I'm working for a paycheck, or working to serve my husband and child, and I can't serve the church properly if I'm not first and foremost serving my family.
Perhaps if I were serving where my heart really wanted to serve I would feel differently. I have dreams of someday working with the poor, and I have dreams of bringing energy solutions to remote and poor neighborhoods (we live 40 miles from Mexico, so this isn't something completely out of reach). Our church really doesn't have any sort of program or venue to help out with something like that, sometimes they'll piggyback on other church's efforts, but it feels like we find out too little too late.
It's too easy to walk in and out, Sunday after Sunday, not saying anything to anyone. Our church is pretty friendly, and after a while you'll get assaulted by someone trying to draw you in. But we don't. I volunteer at the nursery often and Dh helps weekly with teardown. We attend every baptism we can, and we've been part of an evening bible study group for three years. DH has played on a church sports team every year for the past three years. I changed my work schedule to start attending a moms group, and have been going to a womens church book club monthly for 6 months. But when I emailed the pastor the day my husband was admitted into the hospital across the country last week, and asked that his healing be put forth to the prayer team, it took five days for someone from the church to call. Last week was absolutely nuts; I was working and my toddler was sick and I was up at night with her, with morning sickness and puking, and middle of the night calls from my DH and daily hours on the phone with hospital/doctor/case managers/insurance - and it was my non-church going neighbor who invited us over for dinner one night after work. To be honest, looking back on things, it kind of stung.
It's difficult, because like Brenda said, it almost feels like that climate is gone from our churches. The early apostle's fellowshipped together often. Our church doesn't meet daily, or even bi-weekly. We have two services on Sunday and we go every week with sickness being the only exception. It just feels like there is a bit of a curtain to being part of the church core. Maybe it's just our church environment? What do you do to participate in your church, and is it "enough"? Is it because I'm not plugged in enough? Were my expectations too high? Is my heart not in the right spot? Maybe this is divergent subject to why women are leaving the church. But are there women like myself feeling like they just don't fit in? When fellowshipping comes pre-packaged on Sundays and doesn't happen as needed? And is this fellowshipping harder to attain as a working woman, especially as a working mom?
I forwarded this to our pastors. We have a small-med sized church so we have to be extra careful of not burning out the people that serve. In a smaller church you understand that you may do more rolls so its easy to get burned out. I use to lead a ministry but stepped back from that since I have little ones and that is my primary focus. But right now I serve in three ministries and enjoy it so much. I make it a point to be in one service a week to be fed spiritually though.
Me-Brenda (SAHM), DH-Rudy, DS-Isaiah (3/13/09), Micah (5/25/2011)
We are a bf, baby wearing, non-vacc, hbac, homeschool, traditional family whose center is Christ!
Burnout is big in the church I grew up in. Problem is, some people refused help and were offended if you asked (like they thought you thought they couldn't handle it or weren't doing a good job) and others left because no one DID ask to help.
When we first joined, my mom offered to help with making new banners but the woman who did it was offended anyone would even ask to help with HER project. So when she passed away very suddenly, there was no one to make the banner to be hung at her funeral.
The treasurer of the church was very controlling of how to keep the books and wouldn't let anyone help him so people quit asking. A decade later, he was sick of doing it and he thought the only way to escape was to leave the church (he didn't leave the Church, just our church).
It's a very fine line to walk some places,... At my current church, DH's grandma used to be involved in EVERYTHING: baking for funerals, making bibs for the childhood center, quilting, etc. DH's aunt has started doing some funeral baking (there are probably a dozen ladies who rotate the "job" and always more than one is involved with each funeral) and there are a LOT of quilting ladies... but I'm thinking about making bibs for the childhood center now. I have to get my hands on grammie's pattern though. Thanks ladies for all this great conversation! It is really encouraging me to get more involved than I have been!
Rae (27), DH (26), Lucas (6/3/12), #2 due in December
I guess I'm gonna follow the rabbit trail here, but I'm REALLY looking forward to getting back into serving at my church. I just don't have it in me right now, in this season of life. I'd like to play on the music team again and I'd like to help out with the 4-6 year olds. I keep telling myself, when the babies are 1, I'll jump back in.
There's a saying that 20% of the people do 80% of the work. I'm grateful that it seems like a huge percentage of folks at my church are serving. And just to brag on my church, because I think they do a good job at serving each other... After the twins were born, they set up nightly meals for a full 2 weeks. And these were huge meals. Usually 3 courses (salad/veggie, main, dessert) and big enough to last the meal plus at least one lunch. It was awesome. After my family left, a gal at church set up 6 weeks of grocery shopping and light housework for us. It was AMAZING. We couldn't have made it without all of that help.
Consensus, I'm so sorry that it took someone at your church so long to get back to you and that more help wasn't offered.
Amanda, DH
Did you know the people who asked you that?
I'll be honest, that line made me chuckle because it happened to me once, too. We joined a church when I was 5 and for some reason, my entire family was out of town one Sunday so I went by myself. Since I was by myself, I decided to sit on the opposite side of the aisle from our normal "spot" and a few people asked me if I was visiting. Ummm... nope, been here 15 years. Just sitting in the wrong place
Rae (27), DH (26), Lucas (6/3/12), #2 due in December
I think in a lot of churches, people have their "spots."Did you know the people who asked you that?
I'll be honest, that line made me chuckle because it happened to me once, too. We joined a church when I was 5 and for some reason, my entire family was out of town one Sunday so I went by myself. Since I was by myself, I decided to sit on the opposite side of the aisle from our normal "spot" and a few people asked me if I was visiting. Ummm... nope, been here 15 years. Just sitting in the wrong place
Amanda, DH
since I sent this to my pastoral staff a whole line of communication about the women in our church has opened. Its great. Thanks for the article. I have to confess that since I work one of the ministries on sunday mornings I usually miss church service. So I have went up to someone before and asked them if they are new in the congregation. When she said they have been visiting for some time, a few months, I apologized and said that I'm usually helping in ministries and miss service so I was unaware. I knew they weren't members yet but still I felt bad and I think I made them feel bad too. But yeah my parents have "their spot" and it drives me crazy. Me and dh purposely sit in random areas throughout the year (well when I'm actually able to attend service instead of serving :-). It has been so nice to reach out to get to know your church. I find the old timers are really amazing to listen to
Me-Brenda (SAHM), DH-Rudy, DS-Isaiah (3/13/09), Micah (5/25/2011)
Well, I had to come back and update a quick bit on my previous post. Does God ever give you a slap in the back in the head trying to teach you something? I had a bit of what could be considered a total smackdown. For over a week I've been getting led to bible verses, conversations, and our pastors sermon on Sunday all showing me how self-centered and crappy my attitude was - and something else I kind of knew but hadn't fully embraced, is during the times I feel distant from the church, I'm also feeling distant from God. Low and behold, during that crazy couple weeks when my DH was in the hospital I didn't pick up my bible once, and my prayer life was - eh.
So, feeling a bit ashamed, I figured I would come out myself here as a once again, humbled, work in progress. "In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy, because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, being confident in this, that He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Jesus Christ". IE - work in progress!
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