Chit Chat....

[Sakura]

I feel like I have a long way to go. I am feeling so frustrated in my marriage, we had our first real "talk" in a month and it didn't go so well. I feel tempted to write here and get encouragement but I hear this little voice in my head saying "Go to the throne, not the phone". I just really need to... let go. I really need God.

[CDWard]

Polly & Jenn - I'm sorry you feel this way, too, because it's quite sucky. I don't even feel worthy enough to post in here (thus the lurking only) because of how bad my thoughts get. There are times where I just want to smack some sense into me & block these thoughts/feelings. And the bad thing is that it's not that I'm backsliding or anything. I'm still working hard to do the things I need to do to please God. I just have dreams that leads to thoughts/feelings and then the thoughts lead back into dreams. Ugh.

[AnnaC]

[KC's wifey]

Polly & Jenn - I'm sorry you feel this way, too, because it's quite sucky. I don't even feel worthy enough to post in here (thus the lurking only) because of how bad my thoughts get. There are times where I just want to smack some sense into me & block these thoughts/feelings. And the bad thing is that it's not that I'm backsliding or anything. I'm still working hard to do the things I need to do to please God. I just have dreams that leads to thoughts/feelings and then the thoughts lead back into dreams. Ugh.

I understand, but I also want to encourage you to stick around here. This is a good group of girls, and I've been blessed when I've opened up, even when it wasn't very pretty. And, on a more selfish note, I miss you when you don't post!

[Sakura]

Polly & Jenn - I'm sorry you feel this way, too, because it's quite sucky. I don't even feel worthy enough to post in here (thus the lurking only) because of how bad my thoughts get. There are times where I just want to smack some sense into me & block these thoughts/feelings. And the bad thing is that it's not that I'm backsliding or anything. I'm still working hard to do the things I need to do to please God. I just have dreams that leads to thoughts/feelings and then the thoughts lead back into dreams. Ugh.

I know it sounds trite, but being in the Word and fellowshipping with other believers really really does help.

[CDWard]

Thx all. You all are making me tear up. I'm trying to open up. It's just sooo hard when I feel like such a dirtbag & don't feel worthy talking about Christian things with good, wholesome women. lol

I've still been reading the Bible, going to study, attending church, even playing the piano for services most the time - I'm trying really hard to stay right with God. And yet - these thoughts continue.

[ayles]

Carrie~

Our war against the enemy is most often in our minds as that is where he plants the seed. However, God has given us power and authority over the enemy to hold every thought captive against the knowledge of Christ and cast down anything and everything that is not like Him.

Easier said than done, huh? What helps me with any type of negative thoughts is to respond out loud to the enemy with scripture. That is what Jesus did when the enemy was attacking His thoughts. And eventually the enemy left. God's truth is the strongest weapon against the thoughts the enemy places in our minds.

Prayer is another weapon. Pray about the dreams; ask God to protect you. He is our protector (read Psalm 3), our refuge, our deliverer. He delivers us from the hands of the enemy.

I understand about not wanting to share on the boards. God does say we are to use wisdom as to who we trust with our lives, issues. Is there any one or two individuals that you trust to encourage you and pray with and for you? Maybe if you started with that and see where God leads?

I am praying for you! God loves you! When we become His He is able to transform us in every way--including the renewing of our minds. Psalms is a good place to be reminded of that. Lots of love and blessings to you.

[pants]

That's cool.


One another positive note, the Lord is blessing us with another new (to us) car! It belongs to the mother of a co-worker of my step-mom's. Did you follow that? The mother is going into a nursing home and they need to get rid of her car. And not only that, but my dad and step-mom are paying 1/2 of it for us. Now Tim will have a reliable car to drive to work!

That is soooooooooooo awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Prais the Lord

Yay for Amanda, Brenda and Bekah for blessings!

I feel like I have a long way to go. I am feeling so frustrated in my marriage, we had our first real "talk" in a month and it didn't go so well. I feel tempted to write here and get encouragement but I hear this little voice in my head saying "Go to the throne, not the phone". I just really need to... let go. I really need God.

Well we can all pray for your issues in marriage even if you don't go into detail about it. Satan would love nothing more then to see Christians discouraged.

About the thoughts...well I have made a habit of memorizing bible verses. It really helps even if the only verse I can remember at that time is John 3:16 ...I can't say my thoughts are 100% honest and biblical. But having verses memorized has helped curb the nastiest of stuff. Especially when I'm driving!! The worst comes out in me.....

[ayles]

Also Carrie, have you read Joyce Meyer's Battlefield of the Mind? That really helped me in terms of my thoughts and how to fight the enemy when he attacks us in that way. I highly recommend it

[pants]

oh on a separate note. Just a question for the married ladies. Did you go through pre-marital counseling and did you feel it was enough?

I am going through a counseling series and the topic is pre-marital counseling. And some of the things they are going through made me stop and think...WOW I see comments on APA from people (not any of you just the APA in general!!) that really should have been dealt with in pre-marital counseling. Things from child disciple to joint bank accounts to will the wife work after children, will the husband?

Just wondering if you guys felt your counseling was thorough enough or do you think that it should have been more in-depth. DH and I went through weeks of counseling and to our surprise we were more alike and pointing in the same direction then we thought. So we really haven't had to deal with a lot of battles in our marriage. Most were worked through before marriage. And I wonder if good premarital counseling would lessen the risk for divorce between Christian couples nationwide.

[Sakura]

oh on a separate note. Just a question for the married ladies. Did you go through pre-marital counseling and did you feel it was enough?

We did, but it was more about planning the ceremony.

I would've liked more counseling, but dh and I have been very blessed with our marriage.

[Fallenstar80]

To all my struggling ladies.
Brenda: I had pre martial counseling and it was not even close to being enough. We only had 2 sessions. DH and I agreed on a lot of stuff before we got married, but are still discussing other topics.

[KC's wifey]

We did go through premarital counseling, and I think it did help. My DH and I have very different personalities, but our core values and goals are the same. We discussed most of the big topics and are for the most part, in agreement. Most of the disagreements we have are over stupid stuff that gets blown out of proportion when we are stressed out. That said, I would still have liked more in depth premarital counseling. Actually, I would like marriage counseling now, too. The last year has been so extreme and exhausting. I would like us to learn all we can from it, because I know the challenges aren't over. Life always has more to throw.

I agree though. A lot of hurt and problems that could have been avoided if more people went through good marital counseling.

[ayles]

I do believe pre-marital counseling is an important prerequisite for marriage, however, I don't think I can say that it neccessarily would prevent issues, struggles, divorce etc. no matter how in depth it was. It can teach you some basics, possibly help you get to know your spouse-to- be a little better (provided you are being completely honest about yourself which a lot of times, yes even with Christians, is not the case), and create some sort of foundation for possible struggles but it cannot prepare you for the unknown. And as Christians we know and understand that a lot of what we face in life is unknown. I don't think premarital counseling can prepare you for the death of a child. I don't think it can prepare you for a physical illness/injury that leads to job loss and so many other things. I don't think it can prepare you for a child addicted to drugs/alcohol. And the list goes on and on.

Regardless of premarital counseling our marriages can only survive struggles, issues (and some are not in our control like mentioned above so I don't believe it has anything to do with being on the same wave length or hashing out issues during premarital counseling) if they are built on the Rock--Jesus Christ. And no matter how much godly wisdom you gain from counseling, to me that is an individual heart issue. If your heart is right with God and is wilfully submitted to God in all areas including and especially your marriage then you will be able to withstand the storms of life. And they will come, again, regardless of in depth premarital counseling because there are so many things we cannot control and because we are essentially marrying someone very different from us (just he gender difference alone is huge even if you are similar in a lot of ways--men and women are different on that level in the very least) and so when God says about becoming one it's a process. It won't just happen with going to premarital counseling in depth and then getting married. It's lifelong. It includes storms and trials and tribulations. It includes disagreements and hurt feelings. It includes constantly relearning how to communicate with the other until it becomes second nature. It's a lifelong process.

I have yet so see a Christian marriage that has not had to deal with issues (be it in their relationship or external that they could not control) regardless of premarital counseling.

Oh and this is coming from a huge advocate of premarital/marital therapy being that I am going to school to become one!

[ayles]

Oh and I wanted to add that especially in the case of Christian marriages that do it the right way and don't live together before they get married; premarital counseling definitely cannot cover every single thing you discover that's weird, different, confusing, disturbing, disappointing about your spouse that you discover after you get married. And often those are things that catch us off guard and lead to the constant bickering and fighting and communication struggles which oftentimes lead to bigger issues.

[KC's wifey]

I don't think it can prevent all struggles, or prepare people for everything. But I do think there are some basics that if people just knew about each other it would definitely help. There are some very common issues that almost everyone goes through, and deciding how to tackle them before they happen could prevent a lot of heartache.

[CDWard]

Thank you all for the encouragine words. It really does help and my thoughts have been pretty good today, too. So, that is a blessing.

About the counseling, Jason & I only got the 2 day thing that was pretty lame. We do agree on most things but there are a few differences.

I have a question, though, that has crossed my mind. Remember in the Bible when God "hardens hearts" in order for something to happen? Like, God hardened the heart of the Pharoah when Moses was trying to free Israel? I mean, there are many different references where God hardens the heart of someone in order for something to glorify Him or to punish His people.

So.....do you think that God hardens the heart of his own people toward others in order for something good to happen & glorify Him? Do you think He only did that in the Bible? Shoot, I don't know if I'm making any sense.

[ayles]

I don't think it can prevent all struggles, or prepare people for everything. But I do think there are some basics that if people just knew about each other it would definitely help. There are some very common issues that almost everyone goes through, and deciding how to tackle them before they happen could prevent a lot of heartache.

Which is what I said in my post that it can prepare you for some issues but even those you don't know 100% how you're going to feel when they come up or what degree they will come up in. Finances is very broad. How much of that can you really cover in premarital counseling? Children; are you going to cover every aspect from the time of pregnancy until their adults? It's humanly impossible. You can talk about general disicpline issues but are you going to cover every single scenario? One of the leading Christian professionals in my academic realm said that one of the most common issues he saw in marriages were disagreements on family traditions like eating at the table, eating at a certain time, how much tv their children watched etc. While these seem petty they were a huge source of conflict because one or both spouses felt their culture, family, childhood traditions were being negated. How much of this can you cover in premarital counseling?

We went through vigorous premarital counseling before my first marriage. We talked about things like infidelity, our individual families, culture, children etc. It didn't make too much of a difference when my ex-husband was unfaithful nor did it prepare us for when my father died in a drowning accident and there was no empathy, support, compassion from him because he didn't understand my reaction to his death in particular but death in general which ultimately led me to the point of depression feeling like there was no hope to the point where I separated, met someone else and ultimately it didn't prevent us from getting a divorce.

I'm saying all this to say that while there may be "common issues" every couple is individual and the nature and degree of their issues and who they are in God and allowing Him to facilitate their marriages are what determine a lot not how much premarital counseling they went through. I am more of an advocate of seeking counseling early on in the marriage and consistently throughout the marriage especially when specific, major issues come up because that is dealing with the present. You can address the past but you can't control the future by doing premarital counseling. You can, however, address the present with marital counseling.

Hopefully this made sense.

[KC's wifey]

I have a question, though, that has crossed my mind. Remember in the Bible when God "hardens hearts" in order for something to happen? Like, God hardened the heart of the Pharoah when Moses was trying to free Israel? I mean, there are many different references where God hardens the heart of someone in order for something to glorify Him or to punish His people.

So.....do you think that God hardens the heart of his own people toward others in order for something good to happen & glorify Him? Do you think He only did that in the Bible? Shoot, I don't know if I'm making any sense.

I honestly don't know. I've thought about this but I don't have any answers for you. I hope some of the other girls do!

[Sakura]

So.....do you think that God hardens the heart of his own people toward others in order for something good to happen & glorify Him? Do you think He only did that in the Bible? Shoot, I don't know if I'm making any sense.

That's a really interesting question.... and I don't know! I mean, all things work out for His glory, so I guess it's definitely possible!

[KC's wifey]

It clashes with the idea of free will... that God would purposely harden someone's heart. That's the issue I have with it, and why I don't have an answer.

[ayles]

I don't neccessarily know the Biblical answer to your question, Carrie, however, I do know that God's ways and thoughts are not ours; His are higher than ours and so a lot of times it's hard to comprehend if and why He does things a certain way.

Yes we have free will but God's will is sovereign and can and does override our will at any point needed to fulfill His purpose. If that wasn't the case I'd say all of us would be in a lot of trouble at the hands of those who constantly choose their own will over God's (includling ourselves!).

A good example of this is my family. They are not saved yet God constantly uses them to bless me. Especially with my sister I know if it wasn't for God's divine intervention in "making" (inadvertently of course) her do things for me she would never want to. And this has happened several times.

[caligirl07]

we went through fairly rigous pre marital counsling I think it was great, and Im shocked when I see some questions that spouses haven't talked about... (sorry for short answer NAKing...)

[Consensus]

So.....do you think that God hardens the heart of his own people toward others in order for something good to happen & glorify Him? Do you think He only did that in the Bible? Shoot, I don't know if I'm making any sense.

I kind of wondered about this in a thread a couple days ago as well. When things between DH and I got really, really bad and he got aggressive towards me while drunk one night it did two things - 1) catapulted us into seeking and settling in a church home and 2) knocked my DH off the pedastal I had him on, and God replaced him.
Not sure if this is the appropriate context for what you are thinking, but it's what immediately came to mind when I read your post. But it was a very negative thing that I believe God used to wake us up to the hole we had in our lives.

[KC's wifey]

I don't know, I still have an issue with the idea of God overriding our free will. I do believe God works in and through our circumstances and choices, but if God can override our choices, and "force" our hearts to be hardened against Him, then we could blame God for our sin. How do we know when it is us or God that is hardening our hearts against Him? God is perfect and holy. How could a perfect and holy God cause us to sin? I understand WE can choose sin and He makes it right and uses it for His good, but God Himself causing sin as a means to an end? I can't wrap my mind around that.

[ayles]

I don't know, I still have an issue with the idea of God overriding our free will. I do believe God works in and through our circumstances and choices, but if God can override our choices, and "force" our hearts to be hardened against Him, then we could blame God for our sin. How do we know when it is us or God that is hardening our hearts against Him? God is perfect and holy. How could a perfect and holy God cause us to sin? I understand WE can choose sin and He makes it right and uses it for His good, but God Himself causing sin as a means to an end? I can't wrap my mind around that.

I don't think it's as black and white as that though. You have to understand Pharoah did not know God for one. His heart was already hardened like others who are not saved in today's world. The way I see it God didn't neccessarily harden a pure, genuine heart but He didn't prevent his already hardened heart from doing what it was going to do i.e. go against Moses. Does that make sense? God doesn't initiate/enable us to sin but He doesn't prevent us from doing it either. And I don't believe God hardens our hearts against Him perse. He didn't harden Pharoah's heart against Him; He hardened it against Moses. I believe there's a difference.

[KC's wifey]

I don't think it's as black and white as that though. You have to understand Pharoah did not know God for one. His heart was already hardened like others who are not saved in today's world. The way I see it God didn't neccessarily harden a pure, genuine heart but He didn't prevent his already hardened heart from doing what it was going to do i.e. go against Moses. Does that make sense? God doesn't initiate/enable us to sin but He doesn't prevent us from doing it either. And I don't believe God hardens our hearts against Him perse. He didn't harden Pharoah's heart against Him; He hardened it against Moses. I believe there's a difference.

We see it differently, I guess.

[Fallenstar80]

I was offended by the adoption thread. Not by Kate, but some of the other answers.

[KC's wifey]

I was offended by the adoption thread. Not by Kate, but some of the other answers.

Yeah, I can understand why.

[CDWard]

Thx for the response ladies. I've wondered that every time I see in the Bible that God hardened someone's heart. I don't really know an answer either. Just wanted your all's 2 cents worth.

I haven't read the adoption thread - guess I'll search for it. And also, I am feeling alot better today. Had a wonderful weekend and feel that God is giving me peace that I've been needing. The only dreams I've had include searching for a midwife (lol - no, Im not PG yet) and an Avon rep. So, my dreams are even cooperating with me! God is good.