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Thread: Secular Confessions

  1. #44221

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    I'm only on for a second, Janet, so I can't peek at the counselors, but want to say that my dh does the "I'm always wrong, you're always right" thing too. It's completely infuriating and is a perfect way to shut down communication and end the conversation "on top," while passively blaming the other person. In short, it sucks. I hope you find the perfect person to help you guys. I contemplate couples therapy all of the time but the price tag always stymies me. Not that I don't think it's worth it - I totally think it is, and in my experience with other kinds of therapy, when you pay out of pocket for someone who's really good, you get what you pay for (ie, much better counseling than with the yahoo your insurance might assign you).

    I love Maiya's penis/uterus song!
    -- mom to DD1 1/98 and DD2 10/09


  2. #44222
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    My DH does that, too.


  3. #44223
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    My DH does that, too. And I have also noticed that as we have not currently been actively trying, my patience is much shorter. I have also been considering counseling, to be honest. But in our case, I strongly think my DH is depressed and I think he is also grieving over our infertility, as well as circumstances in his own life. I'm trying to be patient with him because of that.
    Me (40) DH (47) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

  4. #44224

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    Dbf does that too. I have asked him during calmer times to refrain from saying "always" and "never" in a discussion because it completely discredits him. I also get the really insincere, condescending apology where he says that he is sorry I feel the way I feel or he is sorry I took what he said the wrong way.
    I hope, Janet, that you can find someone. I have looked into it for us and found it to be a very daunting task. And the money. Dbf would never be ok with that.

  5. #44225

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    Well, it makes me sad that this is a common tactic.

  6. #44226

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    Wow... I am both glad to not be alone in this, and also sad that so many men use this tactic... Bridget, YES, mine does that very sarcastic apology thing, too. "Sor-ry". Doesn't translate well to a written word, but I'm sure you know the tone of voice. Gah!

    Mandy, I think my husband is fighting some similar issues. He didn't have a great family life as a kid, and I think that's bugging him now. Plus the infertility and loss I think is harder on him than he wants to admit. I am trying to go easy on him, but all the more reason why I think we need outside help. Ya know?

    And yes, the money. UGH. Why can't it be $100 / month? I could do that. But $400 per month, if we do once a week? That's more than Maiya's preschool!!

    Gretchen, thanks, I thought her song was hilarious!! Tried to record it, but we were in the car- the background noise was too loud and she was too quiet. Darn!



  7. #44227

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    I know. You hate to say you can't afford it because of course the marriage is priceless but...dang.

    I tried to visit with some old friends last night because we were at my dad's where I grew up and a couple of my high school pals have settled there. Sawyer did not nap so fell asleep around 5. I left him and the other kids with dbf and my dad. Well I wasn't there 20 minutes when dbf called and said Sawyer was awake and couldn't be comforted. The whole thing was just awkward because everyone was just jaw to the floor that dbf couldn't deal with it and I'd even consider leaving. And I KNOW it's not ideal. I know a lot of it is his unwillingness to be an equal partner and parenting but some of it is also on me. I've made choices to stay home, to never put my kids in the care of someone else. It wasn't a big conscious decision. It's just the way things panned out. We used to leave the older 2 with my parents but when my mom died, and we had a 3rd child, it just felt like too much to ask of my dad so we haven't. Anyway, I just felt like everyone was shaking their heads when I finally put my coat on to go after waiting about 20 more minutes to see if he would calm down but he was still going strong. They were lecturing me on how I need my time and how it's good for them and dbf to muddle through. And I know all that, for real. We're working on it. But the fact that he works a lot and is gone a lot is just that. A fact. A fact that allows me to homeschool and be with them. I could just hear the conversation after I left! Lol.
    But he was still crying when I walked in the door and the second I took him into my arms he whispered, " I didn't find you." And I told him I just went to see a friend and was coming right back and he said, "I thought you would wait for me." Awwwwww.
    I did try to talk to him when he was calm and tell him he is just fine with his daddy and grandpa but he just kept telling me I am wrong about that. I also had to tell my brother (who was with me as we have many mutual friends)that it bothers me that he acts like I'm a big loser when I don't want to do shots and go to bars. He gets drunk and makes rude comments regarding that and I'm just over it. He insisted (in his drunkenness) that it's just because he misses me. But, like, he knows where I am and we are always thrilled when he comes for a rare visit. Even though I invite him for dinner almost every week and he doesn't come.
    Last edited by Bridget; 11-29-2013 at 03:35 PM.

  8. #44228

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    Your brother, he is single, right? Does he know that kind of lifestyle (usually) changes when you have kids? I mean, I don't know many women my age who are married with kids who still go out drinking. DH and I drink sometimes, but we almost always stay home to do it.

    Maybe he's not used to you not going out to drink. I seem to remember you saying you used to be quite the party girl. I guess it can be hard to adjust when someone stops doing it. He misses you and maybe he remembers you in that context and it's weird for him that you don't do it anymore. Still, he needs to get over it and find another way to bond with you.

    Speaking of penises and uteruses, I think it's time to have some kind of talk with Josh about the difference between boys and girls. He mentioned a few days ago that he wanted to see a naked woman so he could see what it looks like to not have a penis. How did you all teach your little ones what they know? Do you just talk to them or are there some books or websites you used? How much do you think they need to know about making babies? I mean, Josh knows that a baby grows inside a woman but hasn't thought to ask exactly how it gets there, you know?

  9. #44229

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    Yeah, he's single. And I totally understand the change in me as far as drinking goes is pretty drastic, though it's been 8 years now so I think it's time for him to accept it. I miss him too. But when he asks me if i want a shot, and I say no and he rolls his eyes and mutters "annoying", that's not kind. And I expect kindness from him. He's totally not like that when he isn't drinking. Today he's been sending me sweet texts because he probably has a fuzzy memory of our conversation. I adore him. I really, really do. That's probably why it really hurts me and I can't just shrug off his comments. I told him in a few years when my kids are older, he won't be able to get rid of me.
    Last edited by Bridget; 11-29-2013 at 08:12 PM.

  10. #44230

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    Drunk people are annoying, especially when you're sober. LOL
    I'm sorry it hurts you. I know you guys usually get along better than that.

  11. #44231
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    It's hard when lifestyles force changes and while mostly good, it's hard not to miss some things. I know I really my sister being at home even though I'm happy she has a life now and her own home. But it's just not the same when I come home and she's not across the hall where were would hang out and laugh and giggle for hours.

    Big hugs Janet. I consider myself to have a pretty great marriage and even still my DH does the same thing in pretty much the same words...and he's normally a pretty sensitive and a good communicator....yet he still says that. I probably have to admit that I have probably said the same thing, or even more the "whatever". It's just hard to communicate nicely most of the time. would you be interested in any self-help type of books on marriage? I could proably give a few titles that I have on Monday from work. We have had a pretty strong interest in our users on marriage books. Would the insurance cover a therapist if it was one on one and not for couples/marriage? I almost think it would be helpful if you saw someone alone too given that you think it's been worse since you stopped STC. That is such an incredibly hard thing to give up on and try to move on from. It's hard to describe the emotions behind something like that...in a month it will be three years since I had a, well I kind of call it a breakdown. It wasn't like I needed to be committed or was thinking of doing harm but it was pretty bad. I probably should have went and talked to someone at that point and think it would have been really useful. The whole thing freaked out DH who is normally used to me being a cheerleader optimist and so he did work really hard to try to listen to me. It's not perfect but it's gotten better especially if we say something, like, dude that really hurt my feelings. I just need to have you listen or me....or whatever it is. Specifics are important because I think a lot of men, especially mine, just don't pick up on hints.

    I'm back home this weekend. It's been nice but I'm ready to back to my home tomorrow afternoon. It was just the five of us...DH, myself, my sister (her gf is up north hunting), and our parents. Did some shopping today but this afternoon after the mad rushes were gone. It's nice to visit but I miss my house and our routines. My DH mostly is our room on the computer and comes out for food. He's not that social. My dad was like what is doing, doesn't he get bored on the computer that much. My mom was like, um you don't. My dad isn't social either and spends most of his time on his computer.
    So often I think that when something bugs us about someone else, it's because we see ourselves doing that. Example would be DH's cousin is married to a girl B. His mom C is close to my MIL and complains all the time about is wife B. that she likes to go out with her friends and doesn't stay home all the time. I asked my MIL, um isn' t it funny that how C describes B is exactly how my MIL said C was at that age. MIL is like, I never even thought of it but yes everything C complains about B is exactly how C was.
    Last edited by Cosmosmom; 11-30-2013 at 12:30 AM.

    Jennifer, 35, DH 36

  12. #44232

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    Bridget, yes, exactly, DANG. One of them emailed me back, now I have to decide if I want to really spend that much. Ugh, I'm at the wire now!

    Aw, Sawyer, that would break my heart! No matter what kind of talking went on after you left, you are the best Momma. Even if you didn't do all that stuff you mentioned- weren't a SAHM, did leave them with others all the time, and all that- sometimes, kids just need their moms. Period. Maiya has been having sleep overs at her Grandma's since she was an infant (to give me a break, she was an AWFUL sleeper), and recently, there have been times that she just NEEDS me. Even though she really wanted to sleep over, at night, she'll just decide she needs me. Don't let them judge you, unless they're judging what a great mom you are!!

    That's a shame about your brother. Does he drink too much? Is that why he doesn't see you, unless he's drinking, when he is so rude? That can be so hard. I'm sorry, hope things get worked out between you guys soon!

    Aw, Josh. Curiosity is normal, but difficult for us as parents! Did he know when he was younger? For me, it's easy, because Maiya is still so young. She still sees both of us naked quite often, and she's still at the age where her friends can change in front of her (diapers, dirty clothes, whatever), or even just run around naked because it's so warm and kids like to be naked. So she's seen many penises in her 3 1/2 years. It's seldom a big deal, though I can tell it's starting to become a bit more of a "thing" for her (like, say, the penis / uterus song).

    Of course, Josh is a bit old for learning like that. I, personally, believe it is good for people of all ages to know as much about the bodies of both sexes and baby making as possible. I know when I was a kid, maybe around 5, my parents showed my brother and I a video. I was one of the few of my friends who knew about that stuff, and it always shocked me. Especially when we were preteens and many of my girl friends had NO CLUE what puberty would bring to our bodies. Whew.

    Anyway, I'm rambling, sorry. I would probably go about it in the same way as I do teaching her about anything. Just matter of fact, not a big deal. I wouldn't, especially at his age, sit down and have "the talk" with him. I'd probably just get an anatomy book from the library and read it with all the rest of your library books. Just like I do now with Maiya! Next time you're in the library, go to the non-fiction section, and ask what he'd like to learn about. Grab a book on turtles, one on engineering, one on space, and one on anatomy. Maiya is REALLY in to "body books" right now. Last time we went to the library, I think we borrowed 6 (and I think 3 were called "My Body" and 3 were called "The Human Body", made them difficult to keep track of!). Some are very basic, and don't give many details (either in pictures or words), and those will probably not answer his questions, but maybe it's a good way to start. Some are very detailed, especially the ones that focus on reproduction, and one like that would probably answer his questions.

    At least, that's what works for me with my 3 year old girl... I know you'll find something that works well for you guys!

    Jennifer, I'm definitely open to ideas and would love some book suggestions! And yes, insurance would cover individual therapy, and I've thought about that a lot. I just don't think it would help "us" as much as it would me. I don't know. I know it's partially me, of course, and maybe even all me, but I feel like, if it is all me, that I'd need his input to fix whatever is going on between us. Does that make sense?

    And YES, you are so right about seeing ourselves in others and being most annoyed at it. My mom, who is a great woman, and my husband, who is a great man, are very, VERY similar. Some women grow up to marry their "dads", well, I grew up and married my "mom"! My mom loves my husband, but she is constantly complaining about a lot of his traits. Like, for example, how he is more materialistic than I am and always spending money. Well, my mom is the WORST when it comes to spending more money than she makes! It cracks me up, listening to her complain about exactly what she does...



  13. #44233

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    Thanks for saying that, Janet. And, yes, my bro drinks too much. He works a lot too and has a busy social life, spends a lot of time with my dad. So I get that he is busy and never give him a hard time for not coming to.visit. But if he misses me so much, I certainly have time to spend with him. Just not at the bar.

    Oh, Kate, I agree with Janet. Just approach it the way you would anything else. Just give him the facts. We all see each other naked too so there are no unknowns around here! Also since we are so into animals, th kids have always had a general understanding of the way babies are made. They haven't asked for specifics but when they do, I will be matter of fact. It's funny because they will say people are mating instead of married sometimes. Lol. Also, they have always said that dbf and I mated to have them. We actually have 2 anatomically correct life like dolls, a boy and a girl. So that has sparked many conversations.

  14. #44234

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    Lol. Well, Savana just said she wanted to keep our dove's cage in the window today for the chance that she would mate through the window and have babies.

  15. #44235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
    Lol. Well, Savana just said she wanted to keep our dove's cage in the window today for the chance that she would mate through the window and have babies.
    LOL! Something just doesn't add up there!
    Me (40) DH (47) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

  16. #44236
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    Dogs can do that (mate through cages). Doves, not so much.

  17. #44237

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    Well, there is the glass in the window that may hinder the mating process. I do feel like our dove is lonely, though. She coos all day long unless we are in the same room with her.

  18. #44238
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    Yeah, last I checked glass was a good contraceptive.

    We went and saw Santa today; the boys were excited. When Santa asked them what they wanted for Crimbo, they both told him Lego, which we were glad to hear since both of them have Lego themed presents as their 'big' gifts-Travis has Lego Airplane City and Cash has the police station. Cash is also getting his first bike and Travis is getting a new scooter amongst other things. It was a nice day out with my in-laws and niece and nephews. We drank sherry and ate mince pies while the kids played and even stopped at a farm shop that was hosting a food market and spent way too much money on tasty food while there. The boys picked up 2 chocolate lollipops which I bought for them without checking the price, thinking that they'd not be expensive. When I got home, I saw that they were 2.55 EACH! That is like $4.00 a lollipop! Ouch!

    In other news, I think Travis has something developmentally going on; he's started complaining about me being at work so much and whining about having to go to his aunt's house after school most days. He actually bit one of his cousin's the other day for no reason apparently. He couldn't explain why he did it. He's never bitten anyone before, so it completely shocked me. He did get bit by Cash a few weeks ago, and he did say he was just doing what Cash did to him, but we told him repeatedly that he better not ever bite anyone again. He was so upset about it. I don't think he will do it again. Kids are so weird.

  19. #44239

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    When Josh was really little he'd take baths and showers with us and we weren't terribly modest, but over the past year or so he's been asking for privacy more often so we've been kind of taking his lead and we don't get naked in his presence as much (especially me--he still sees DH go to the bathroom or take a shower sometimes, but I try to be more private)
    You guys are right. I should just find a book or a website and talk to him.

  20. #44240

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    Savana cracks me up! Love it. It's very sweet of her. Though you're better off just finding her a friend! Probably a female friend, but you'd have to talk to those that know doves better than I do.

    Poor Travis. He sounds pretty confused at the moment. Hope whatever it is passes soon!

    Ugh, maybe I do need to see one, just me. You all know I gave up just two months ago. Well, in the last week or two, I have had 3 friends have babies, and 3 friends announce their pregnancies. I am doing my best to be happy for them, but IT SUCKS.

    In happier news, we went to the beach today and it was GORGEOUS. Great day out for me and my kids (human and canine). Good for the soul!



  21. #44241
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    I haven't actually read any of these but they have been popular in my library and where I would probably start myself.

    http://www.amazon.com/Improve-Marria...+your+marriage

    http://www.amazon.com/Marriage-Rules...marriage+rules

    http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Principl...+marriage+work


    And give yourself a break, of course you are happy for friends but that doesn't mean it doesn't suck. It was the birth of my friends daughter almost three years ago and triggered my sort of mini breakdown. And I was lucky that they live far enough away that I have only met her once. I also avoided going to anything with DH's family where his cousin would be there with his little girl who is now four. I think I have met her once. And of course there was the intense hatred/anger I would feel inside when I saw a pg belly....which kind of happens a lot when you work in a hospital and are in the lobby most of the time! It took a few years to get to a better place and just feel a twinge of jealousy instead.

    Jennifer, 35, DH 36

  22. #44242
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    I love that last one. I bought it and read it and am much more likely to believe in things that have backing by evidence, and that one does. I don't have time to comment much more, except that I should have stayed with it and done more of the exercises, or I should go back to it, because I am feeling very similar to how I did when I bought it. You are not alone.


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    Got a stupid question. Mira has started drawing stuff for her friends, and wants me to remind her to take them in. Should I?

  24. #44244
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    My kids LOVE giving things to their friends, and DD especially has done a bunch of little drawings in the past for people in her class. She will scribble a bunch of little shapes and then pass them out to people before school, and each person in the class gets a little jellyfish or shark or eel. Most of them just kind of shrug and give her a 'whatevs' look and some of them actually drop the pieces of paper and some of them actually say thank you, but this is the start of girls drawing pictures for each other and writing notes and becoming friends. It's a great sign, as long as she (and you) can deal with the rejection if people don't want the drawings. I would remind her, within reason.


  25. #44245

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    Yeah, Josh likes to bring things to school too, once in a while. I figure if it gets too disruptive for the class, the teacher will let me know.

  26. #44246
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    Certainly, I would. Making a gift for someone is always thoughtful and friendly.
    Me (40) DH (47) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

  27. #44247

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    Instead of reminding her to bring them, could you put them someplace where she will remember them herself? Like, we have a little shoe bench by the front door where we put Noe's lunchbox and folder and anything else we want to remember to take to school. If Noe draws things for her friends (and she does -- and she also gets drawings home in her folder from other children), she puts them on the bench so she will remember to take it to school. If it's sitting there, and she doesn't remember or want to take it, then I figure it's not that important to her.
    Maybe you are asking if she should bring these things to school at all, and I don't know your school's policies so I can't be sure - you could always email the teacher to ask if it's okay. I was honing in more on whether it should be your job to make sure she remembers to take them, and from experience with my older kid, I now work hard at NOT being the one responsible for all of her stuff and reminders. I've felt with dd1 that at times I became a sort of repository for helping her remember all of her responsibilities, and then she can act like it's my fault if whatever it is doesn't happen. I have been trying to shake off that responsibility, because it's not my job and I'm only human and can't remember everything.
    Long story short, with Noe I'm trying hard to start from day 1 with making her responsible for remembering her own stuff, and for me it starts with giving her an easy way to do it herself. So if you are cool with M bringing the drawings to school, but just don't want to be responsible for reminding her, maybe the two of you can brainstorm an idea for how she can remember to bring them.
    -- mom to DD1 1/98 and DD2 10/09


  28. #44248
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    Oh, yes, I agree with Gretchen. Obviously your question can be interpreted in more than one way.
    Me (40) DH (47) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwenn View Post
    Oh, yes, I agree with Gretchen. Obviously your question can be interpreted in more than one way.
    Oh yeah, that is also great. I didn't really have to remind my kids because they would do it all in a big hurry right before school and I would tell them to take them or do without them. If they forgot them, it was their loss. If they do something the night before, I tell them to put it in their backpacks. They sometimes stay in their backpacks but at least it's in their hands by that point.


  30. #44250

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    Yeah, I also let Maiya gives things to people, her school is ok with it. The kids would just put them in their pockets or cubbies. And, like others have said, I would just let her remember on her own, by putting it by the door or similar.

    I am SO emotional today, guys. Or at least, tonight. First, hubby is asking for sex again. It's been a couple weeks, probably. And I hate to say it, but I am LOVING not having sex. It's the only way to avoid heartbreak when AF comes. I'm terrified, since I know I'm nearing my fertile window (too many years of STC, even trying to ignore it, I know), and I will get my hopes up again. Blah.

    And, UGH. My parents hate that I am STC. My mom, especially, loves kids, and is having a hard time watching her first born and only daughter give up on having more (especially since she knows it's breaking my heart, too). So, she is / they are desperately trying to help. I've told you guys that I just don't have the emotional capacity, even if the finances weren't an issue. Well, my mom has been looking in to adoption agencies. She is offering to pay *$20,000* towards us adopting. That is SO MUCH money. They're not rich. But that's how badly they want me to have another kid. And it breaks my heart that this is hurting them as much as it's hurting me. I mean, they've even tried to talk my brother and his wife in to being surrogates for me!

    BUT, I'm just so terrified. Adoption isn't guaranteed. And if I get a match and then the birth mom / parents change their minds, that is just the same as a loss. I don't think I can handle that.

    I just want to stop WANTING another kid. But I haven't yet. I still want one. And they're trying to help. And if I don't try, it will hurt THEM, too. It's one thing for me to be hurt, but for me to hurt them, too? UGH. I hate this.

    And she's found an agency that starts classes in January, so I'd have to sign up right now. And she REALLY wants me to sign up. Like, right now. I'm sitting here crying, because I'm just so torn. They want it, we want it, even Maiya wants it. Yes, I asked her, and she said yes. And she wants to name her new sibling Snowflake.

    But I hate to take that much money from them. Especially since having another grandkid will only cost them even MORE money. So I hate to spend all their money, but I also don't feel like I can handle the emotional ups and downs yet. Even if it doesn't end in a loss, I just wanted to focus on Maiya and try to accept my fate. But I still want a sibling for her!! Ugh, I'm so torn.

    And of course, they don't know what their financial situation will be like in a few years, so if I wait, I may not get this chance again. Blaaaaaaaaah.



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