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Thread: Secular Confessions

  1. #40471
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    Quote Originally Posted by daylilies View Post
    In my head I'm always making that circular "wrap it up" motion with my hand LOL
    Maybe I could try that & see if it goes over with the teens better? lol!!

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  2. #40472

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    Sounds like you have some prior experience with this. So sorry. I know my turn is coming soon.

    Kate - have you ever tried that 123 Magic? JoJo was being such a teenager that I decided to try that system and so far it seems to be working. I was spending so much energy defending my discipline and the more I got into it with her, the more permission it seemed to give her to keep pushing back. Now I don't engage, just count. Keeping my fingers crossed that it helps for a while.

    "Any idiot can face a crisis; it is this day-to-day living that wears you out." -Anton Chekhov


  3. #40473

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    I always think "Give her the light!" from my comedy days when they flash a light from the back of the room to let you know that you have to wrap it up in five minutes.

    "Any idiot can face a crisis; it is this day-to-day living that wears you out." -Anton Chekhov


  4. #40474
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlwonder View Post
    Sounds like you have some prior experience with this. So sorry. I know my turn is coming soon.
    Maybe your experience won't be so bad since you just have the 1?

    Who am I kidding. I did it to Bobbie when she was telling me a 4 hour story (so it felt) about a 10 minute conversation about some middle school drama I seriously couldn't have cared less about. Like I said before, i didn't always react well. :/

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  5. #40475
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlwonder View Post
    I always think "Give her the light!" from my comedy days when they flash a light from the back of the room to let you know that you have to wrap it up in five minutes.

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  6. #40476

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    That would drive me crazy too! I hate idle threats.

  7. #40477

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    I don't remember if I read 123 Magic. I read a lot of parenting books. I agreed with them all to a point but I have a hard time following through because my patience wears out before I get through whatever procedure I'm trying.

  8. #40478
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    Chrissy, I'm the opposite, I'm having a hard time keeping track of some of your names. Some people that were here before I took my APA hiatus I remember, you, Bridgette, L, Mandy and Kate. But others I can be fuzzy on.

    I'm Rachael and DD is Cameron and she's 6. DS is Parker and he's 10 weeks.

    I LOVED 123 magic! It was great until I stopped following through. I'm not the greatest at follow through. I'm always overwhelmed with the pets, kids and housework. Strangely enough it's easier now that I'm single though.

    For you ladies who are with me getting frustrated with their kids constant talking, do you have the same feelings about your pets? Sometimes them being on me or near me makes me crazy...

  9. #40479
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    DH is trying to teach the 3 year old our phone #. Comedy gold!

  10. #40480
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    Quote Originally Posted by CamaLamaMama View Post
    Chrissy, I'm the opposite, I'm having a hard time keeping track of some of your names. Some people that were here before I took my APA hiatus I remember, you, Bridgette, L, Mandy and Kate. But others I can be fuzzy on.

    I'm Rachael and DD is Cameron and she's 6. DS is Parker and he's 10 weeks.

    I LOVED 123 magic! It was great until I stopped following through. I'm not the greatest at follow through. I'm always overwhelmed with the pets, kids and housework. Strangely enough it's easier now that I'm single though.

    For you ladies who are with me getting frustrated with their kids constant talking, do you have the same feelings about your pets? Sometimes them being on me or near me makes me crazy...
    I get the same way with Missy. Sometimes, she's directly under my feet. Actually, whenever I'm running late & in a hurry and already grouchy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suja View Post
    DH is trying to teach the 3 year old our phone #. Comedy gold!
    Oh I can imagine!

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  11. #40481
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    Rachael, this last fall I acquired a puppy (see my siggy) and I also adopted a two-year-old cat with major neuroses. I have nicknamed the cat "Vampire Kitty" because she lives under the bed and only comes out after dark. If you have seen me referring to her, that is the joke.

    Puppy is a typical puppy. Loving, social, and needy. He takes up a LOT of my time and attention and he's also huge (just turned 9 months and he's 100 pounds). So when he gets physically affectionate, he comes on very strong. We have fallen into this routine that we crate him at night, and as soon as he goes in his crate, Vampire Kitty comes out and is starved for attention. So I get into bed and read a book (or browse APA) and she is chewing on my hair, trying to eat my glasses, kneading my shoulders with her claws...and I don't take it well. By that point in the day, I'm done with affection and needy pets and I just don't have time to bond with her. I feel bad for the poor cat (her "real" mommy moved to Germany and couldn't bring her) but I am just using all my resources on this puppy and don't have time for a mentally ill cat. It's a shame because she does seem to like me. She just isn't adjusting well to the change.

    I almost let myself be talked into adopting a kitten this fall, too, but I just knew I didn't have it in me to raise a kitten on top of all the other critters around here (I also have a 9-year-old dog with abandonment and anxiety issues so actually I should be on more familiar ground with this cat). So yes, I have issues with my pets. I snap at puppy, too, probably too often. But it's hard to stay mad at him.
    Me (39) DH (46) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

  12. #40482

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    I love our cats and care for all of their needs but honestly rarely pet them. I got nothin' left by day's end! Luckily, I doubt they care as they get plenty of attention from the kids whether they like it or not!

  13. #40483

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    That's kind of why i'm digging 123 Magic - I feel like there's no follow through, I don't have to get mad or get in a discussion or go over what happened afterwards, I just say that's 1, that's 2, that's 3 take 5 and go to your room and that's it - I don't have to ask for an apology or discuss the behavior at all. We just move on.

    "Any idiot can face a crisis; it is this day-to-day living that wears you out." -Anton Chekhov


  14. #40484

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    Are you guys totally against discussion after a misbehavior? I mean, I hate the arguments and I do find myself often saying, "This conversation is over.", or something along those lines. Then again, I do like to hear them out if they truly want to defend themselves. And I've been wrong, or at least unaware of the chain events that lead to, or the motives behind...and I will sometimes see that my initial reaction wasn't correct. Maybe our house is more chaotic in that I often NEED them to break down for me what the heck happened.

    It's a point of contention between dbf and I sometimes because he takes any sort of speaking up as "back talk", whereas I often think they have valid points and as long my frustration isn't over the top to where I actually NEED them to exit the room, I will try to hear them out.

  15. #40485
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    I may be showing some of my own biases here, but I think a lot of these techniques that focus on lengthy dialogue and explanations with very young children are missing the point the kids that age just don't have the communication skills and the logic skills to truly benefit from the explanations (I'm thinking specifically of my nephew at 18 months old standing on top of the furniture, about to knock over a lamp, while my brother spent five minutes trying to explain at great length that the lamp was heavy and would hurt him - where I would have simply picked him up and moved him, end of story, without watching him continuing to threaten to knock the lamp over the whole time). I think it is essential for a parent to understand where a child is coming from and be able to "read" the child, and I think it is also important to convey (through tone of voice, body language, etc) that what you are saying is coming from a place of love and looking out for the child's welfare - but at the end of the day, some things are not negotiable and don't benefit from a lengthy explanation. Move the child - or move the lamp, either way - but save the 10 minute dialogue for when the child is able to have a dialogue. And even when a child can have a dialogue - can they have one while they are upset and emotional?
    Me (39) DH (46) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

  16. #40486
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    Bridget, I'm not against discussion with kids who are a little older and HAVE the capacity to discuss and analyze. But not every child has that, and even more importantly, not every child has that when they are upset and emotional.
    Me (39) DH (46) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

  17. #40487

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    I just found that all discussion was simply making everything worse. I think JoJo generally knows when she is doing something she shouldn't or acting out or whatever, and trying to talk about it while she is in the middle of it seems to add fuel to the fire and make it all so much harder. It's not so much shutting her up as letting her decide how important it is to continue the misbehavior - she has three chances to stop after all. And then she has five minutes in her room to think about it without me telling her what she should think about it. I don't know, it seems like a good way to start instilling some self-control and judging her own behaviors. As I said, it's early days yet...

    "Any idiot can face a crisis; it is this day-to-day living that wears you out." -Anton Chekhov


  18. #40488

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    And it's not saying you can't discuss it, but you discuss it when they are calm and not in the middle of the freakout where you are unlikely to have a meeting of minds on any issue.

    "Any idiot can face a crisis; it is this day-to-day living that wears you out." -Anton Chekhov


  19. #40489
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlwonder View Post
    And it's not saying you can't discuss it, but you discuss it when they are calm and not in the middle of the freakout where you are unlikely to have a meeting of minds on any issue.
    Totally agree with this.
    Me (39) DH (46) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

  20. #40490
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    Bridget,

    I'm not against it, but I don't do it often. Cameron just cannot manage a conversation like that. It sounds to me like your kids are tiny adults in their ability to communicate. I can't imagine Cameron saying or doing things I have read your kids do. However, tonight after a long day. I just told Cameron to go to her room for bed and she looked to me and said "what was I doing wrong" and then I did explain what she had done. I guess it depends on the situation.

    Mandy. That lamp thing would have made me nuts. I can almost imagine my mom doing it though! I offer as simple of an answer as possible, and keep it direct. But that's more because I lack patience.

  21. #40491
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    Quote Originally Posted by CamaLamaMama View Post
    Bridget,

    I'm not against it, but I don't do it often. Cameron just cannot manage a conversation like that. It sounds to me like your kids are tiny adults in their ability to communicate. I can't imagine Cameron saying or doing things I have read your kids do. However, tonight after a long day. I just told Cameron to go to her room for bed and she looked to me and said "what was I doing wrong" and then I did explain what she had done. I guess it depends on the situation.

    Mandy. That lamp thing would have made me nuts. I can almost imagine my mom doing it though! I offer as simple of an answer as possible, and keep it direct. But that's more because I lack patience.
    I really think this is true. And I think it can be hard to appreciate that your kids are that far ahead of the curve - but they are.
    Me (39) DH (46) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

  22. #40492

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    Quote Originally Posted by missychrissy View Post
    Just a word of warning, don't ever act out on the urge to say that. No matter what! It'll continue to come up in every event where they want to list how you've failed miserable as a mother.
    Ha! So true, especially if they are bigger kids. Both of my kids are incessant talkers and it really wears me out by the end of the day. There's only so much active listening and communicating I can do. And DD1 still gets in certain moods where she talks my ear off ... which most of the time I'm really grateful for, because she's telling me about her life and the kids she knows and her thought processes and I'm glad I still have a window into that teenage brain. BUT there are times when she wants to talk about, say, her dreams. And she wants to tell me the dream she had in the most vivid detail, and 20 minutes later she's STILL TELLING ME. "And then I was in this other place, and it looked like our old house but not really, like do you know those houses that are in that place we visited when I was 8? and they were like kind of big but also small? and they had grass in front of them? well it was kind of like one of those houses, but like our old house too. Except that on the inside it had carpet, and the kitchen was in a different place. So I was in there, and I was walking around..."
    and meanwhile I'm standing there, probably with a basket of laundry on my hip or something cooking on the stove, and I'm listening but in my mind I start wandering a bit, and then she's going "Do you think so? Mom? Do you?" and I'm like "um, yeah! I mean no! I mean... er, what was the question?"
    -- mom to DD1 1/98 and DD2 10/09


  23. #40493

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
    Are you guys totally against discussion after a misbehavior? I mean, I hate the arguments and I do find myself often saying, "This conversation is over.", or something along those lines. Then again, I do like to hear them out if they truly want to defend themselves. And I've been wrong, or at least unaware of the chain events that lead to, or the motives behind...and I will sometimes see that my initial reaction wasn't correct. Maybe our house is more chaotic in that I often NEED them to break down for me what the heck happened.

    It's a point of contention between dbf and I sometimes because he takes any sort of speaking up as "back talk", whereas I often think they have valid points and as long my frustration isn't over the top to where I actually NEED them to exit the room, I will try to hear them out.
    Your house sounds a lot like our house in this regard, Bridget. I tend to talk to the kids a lot about behavior and expectations and I like for them to be very clear on the rules and also to understand what they did that needs correcting -- I look at "discipline" more like teaching. It's important to me too to make sure they feel like they're being heard, and like you, I sometimes change my opinion of what happened or what needs to happen after I have the whole story. It seems to work well with my kids -- they're both big communicators, as I just mentioned in a post above -- but if it didn't, I'd do something else. And there are some times and behaviors -- like the safety issue you mention, Mandy -- where I would act immediately, and possibly discuss later, though something like standing on furniture would not be cause for a lengthy conversation. I do think that as kids get older, they can start to take those talks as an opportunity for negotiation, so especially with dd1 I have to sometimes be prepared to tell her that we've come to the end of the discussion. It does drive dh crazy when dd1 and I talk in circles for an hour and finally come to an understanding -- he'd much rather just say "yes" or "no" and that's that.

    With Noe, though, there are times that "1,2,3" works wonders. It's when she already knows what she's supposed to be doing and why, but she's choosing not to do it. She hates for me to get to 3 because at 3 I just bodily move her, so she always jumps at 1. I really like having the ability to get her attention and give her a warning system so she can choose to obey. But I admit, she's a pretty easygoing kid. There's not much need for firm discipline with her.
    -- mom to DD1 1/98 and DD2 10/09


  24. #40494
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    I was a chatty kid. So much so that my sister is naturally a LOT quieter. I think my mom always listened to me...or she's good at faking it. My dad, eh, even now we don't often tell him stuff because he never knows what is going on anyway. So much easier to just let my mom or sister know stuff like when we are coming down.

    I do not go to the bathroom alone either. I generally have two helpers. Either that or they are guarding me. Cosmo lies along the shower when I'm in there but Molly will often spend part of it hanging over the edge of the tub watching me. My girls are needy and if I am holding Cosmo and rocking her, Molly wants to sit on the other side of my lap. The worst is in the kitchen though if I'm moving around fast trying to get a bunch of stuff together at the same time and they are always right there under my feet and I'm tripping on them.

    Katy I LOVE 123 Magic. I have several copies in the library and my patrons have said such great things about it that I bought a personal copy and read it with DH. It also came highly recommended by our social worker (she had 30 years experience) when it came to the parenting part of our classes.....we also had to think about and answer a ton of questions as part of the home study about discipline. I actually think too after reading it that both my MIL and my mom did something 123 like by instinct or something.....we had very similar upbringings.

    Jennifer, 35, DH 36

  25. #40495
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    The other book I just got is 123, so it looks like between spirited child and that, I'd get plenty of guidance on dealing with the little terror. Follow through on my part, unfortunately, the books cannot provide (the other, other part is that my memory is terrible, and I'm not sure I'll remember anything 5 minutes after I've put the book down).

  26. #40496
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlwonder View Post
    And it's not saying you can't discuss it, but you discuss it when they are calm and not in the middle of the freakout where you are unlikely to have a meeting of minds on any issue.
    Agreed. But I think most things need to be discussed. I had 1 rule for myself that I learned reading up on childhood development. "Because I said so" should never suffice as 'good' parenting. There were reasons for that, and when I thought about it it made sense. I actually read that book when I was a teenager for fun...it was a college text someone had given me. Anyway, it was reiterated to me when I was in the single mom program (when Rich & I were separated when Bobbie & Jesi were babies). We had monthly guest speakers who talked about various parenting issues, and "because I said so" came up as an extremely negative way to parent. I reaffirmed to myself I'd never, ever do that. I got stuck a little when my kids were going to school with some kids that I knew had violent tendencies...I knew that because I worked in the mental health clinic. I couldn't explain to them why they couldn't spend the night at Max's house (obviously not the real name!) but I had very legitimate reasons for being against it.

    Now when they're little and putting themselves in danger or nearly breaking a lamp or whatever, I might say, "No, you're going to get hurt" as I move them. But that's not the same as "because I said so" or simply putting them in time out without any explanation. If they're old enough to be removed, they're old enough to be told why. Even at crawling age, I'd "No no no!! Owie!!" or "booboo!" in a sweet, sing-song voice. if it was more dangerous, the "owie!" would be said in a more firm, alarming tone. But something was always said as an explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by pepperlru View Post
    Ha! So true, especially if they are bigger kids. Both of my kids are incessant talkers and it really wears me out by the end of the day. There's only so much active listening and communicating I can do. And DD1 still gets in certain moods where she talks my ear off ... which most of the time I'm really grateful for, because she's telling me about her life and the kids she knows and her thought processes and I'm glad I still have a window into that teenage brain. BUT there are times when she wants to talk about, say, her dreams. And she wants to tell me the dream she had in the most vivid detail, and 20 minutes later she's STILL TELLING ME. "And then I was in this other place, and it looked like our old house but not really, like do you know those houses that are in that place we visited when I was 8? and they were like kind of big but also small? and they had grass in front of them? well it was kind of like one of those houses, but like our old house too. Except that on the inside it had carpet, and the kitchen was in a different place. So I was in there, and I was walking around..."
    and meanwhile I'm standing there, probably with a basket of laundry on my hip or something cooking on the stove, and I'm listening but in my mind I start wandering a bit, and then she's going "Do you think so? Mom? Do you?" and I'm like "um, yeah! I mean no! I mean... er, what was the question?"
    I've done that too! BUSTED!!!!

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  27. #40497
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    Agreed, Chrissy. On the rare occasions at work I bodily move a child I usually say "not safe" or similar as I do it. But there is a difference between "no...ouch" and "now, Andrew, that lamp is big and heavy and you keep shaking it. If you shake it too much, it might fall on your head. That would hurt you and then you would be sad," and so forth and so on, all while Andrew continues to threaten to knock the lamp on his head. Explanations are fine. It's excessive explaining above the kid's language level that I think leads to a lot of the "backfire" of this type of strategy.

    With my older kids at work, I'm all about long explanations and dialogue. Considering that's what I'm typically working on, I take every opportunity I have. I just make sure that conversation matches their ability to participate in that moment.
    Me (39) DH (46) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

  28. #40498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwenn View Post
    Agreed, Chrissy. On the rare occasions at work I bodily move a child I usually say "not safe" or similar as I do it. But there is a difference between "no...ouch" and "now, Andrew, that lamp is big and heavy and you keep shaking it. If you shake it too much, it might fall on your head. That would hurt you and then you would be sad," and so forth and so on, all while Andrew continues to threaten to knock the lamp on his head. Explanations are fine. It's excessive explaining above the kid's language level that I think leads to a lot of the "backfire" of this type of strategy.

    With my older kids at work, I'm all about long explanations and dialogue. Considering that's what I'm typically working on, I take every opportunity I have. I just make sure that conversation matches their ability to participate in that moment.
    I agree that's totally ridiculous for an 18 month old.

    Almost as bad as the parents that stressed about doing everything 'just so' that they held/rocked/walked their fussy baby for 4 hours while the grandmother suggested a little Benadryl might help. He was sick, the pharmacist said it was safe for his age and whatever ailed him. But the pediatrician is one that doesn't believe in using Benadryl ever, and most especially not to 'just help the child sleep.' So the parents paced and debated and called around for hours and finally caved. Baby went right to sleep. And so did the 3 adults that spent 1/2 the night coping with him.

    I've always been anti-Benadryl myself too...but I admit to using it on one occasion. I didn't wait not 4 hours either. Sometimes, there are benefits to that stuff. Where it's dangerous is when the parents are giving it all the time. I've used it once on a child in 20 years. I'm not worried.

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  29. #40499
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    So, I just someone comment on a picture on Facebook. Apparently my fb friend's friend has a photography business and is offering a photo shoot of little girls dressed up in their mother's wedding dress and veil. The idea is that you keep it and give it to her on her wedding day.

    I don't think of myself as stridently feminist, but somewhere inside me a feminist is screaming at this. Anyone else think it's kind of a creepy idea to dress your daughter up in your wedding dress?
    Me (39) DH (46) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

  30. #40500
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    No, but maybe that's because I always wanted to try my own mother's on as a little girl. I remember it distinctly. She'd actually put it on on their anniversary (probably weird, but whatever) and I'd sit on her bed and watch her. Dad would kiss her on the lips. It would be off and put back in less than 1/2 an hour, but I really, really wanted to try it on myself too.

    I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to instill your values in your kids. When it becomes wrong is when the parents are so limiting in their own ideals for their children, they try to dissuade or prevent the child from growing up and doing their own thing. Maybe one of those girls will grow up and decide marriage isn't for her. If her parents truly love her, that should be just fine. I think sentimental value can still be associated with the daughter in the dress pictures. The parent's own love and marriage created her, and if only for that moment she played dress up in her mommy's dress. What little girl doesn't like doing that?

    Now if she's bawling in the pics and has snot running out her nose because she hates the idea so much...well yeah. That's just wrong.

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


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