Secular Confessions

[missychrissy]

Why is it called limerence and not just a crush? Because we're older and married? I've experienced something like that a time or two since I was married to Rich. Like you, it didn't cause me any worry or anxiety or negative feelings of any kind though, so maybe it's not the same thing.

I also wonder if mine were the same because they seemed to happen at times when my marriage was in trouble, and perhaps I was opening a porthole to an emotional affair? I never really thought too much about it. But you can bet I'm gonna ponder this for a while.

[Gwenn]

I've had it once or twice, but really I'd describe it more as a crush because, as you said, it wasn't painful and with no intention of reciprocating. More of an escapist fantasy for me. But I know what you mean.

[daylilies]

Yes, I have had one of those. And I never knew that word either!

When I was engaged to DH I was still in culinary school and I was doing my internship and I worked with a guy there. He was extremely friendly and helpful to me since day one and I'd never really been doted on like that (not even by DH who is not really the doting type LOL) and we just had this weird sort of flirtatious work relationship with witty banter and a lot of giving each other a hard time. It wasn't until I'd been working there a year that he confessed he was "in love with me" which I think was actually just a serious case of this "limerence" on his part as well. Although, as you said, the feelings were mutual (except I wasn't exactly in love with him, but I did feel attracted)

Things got awkward quick after that and I ended up leaving that job.

Other than that I've not had a serious crush besides Joey from NKOTB. LOL

[3andMe]

I've had it with other relationships, but not with my DH.

I cheated on my first very serious boyfriend in high school, and I checked out on my first husband while we were in the process of getting divorced -- had several attractions to other people who made me feel so much more interesting and important than he did. I like that glow, but I won't ever allow myself to be in it again. I know I couldn't possibly be more compatible with someone else who is just showing me the temporarily more appealing side, but not the part who doesn't pick up his socks or gets pee on the floor or watches sports all day or whatever. I pretty much just have to imagine all the unappealing aspects of whatever male it is to not ever have a fondness for flirtation. What I have now is so much more valuable, no matter whatever little pesky issues go on, than the chance flirtation and pain that might happen. For me, though, it's just easier to stop it at the onset, than somewhere in the middle.

ETA: Awesome word - DS was just telling me this evening that he didn't know 'all the words,' and I told him that I still didn't know every word, either. Case in point. And I wish I could enjoy that magical feeling of crush without it actually having the potential to damage my relationship, but I know it would, so I just don't let it. Finally, have you ever heard "Crush Story" by Too Much Joy? It's an awesome song, and I used to drive around and sing it at the top of my lungs. It's so perfect.

[Cosmosmom]

Chrissy the fact that she's showing optimism is a great thing. I do think that it is easier for some people...like me, I tend to be an optimist and when bad sh*t happens, I wallow a bit and than start coming up with plans on how to fix it and get what I want. My Dh is NOT like me. One of my least favorite things about him. His reaction is pessimistic and very woah is me, might as well crawl under a rock and die kind of person (not literally). I keep pointing out good things about him (he has low self-esteem....can thank his stepfather for that one). I point out how great we have it and all the good things we have right now. Sometimes that helps. Really something has clicked recently when a coworker died suddenly....was thinking of retiring soon. Than he barber died suddenly and he was kind of attached to having him do his hair. And my sister's friend....a 24 yr old who just got married was dxd with a Ewing sarcoma and has to have a colostomy, chemo and now radiation....oh and she had just moved to japan for a few years for her DH's job so has no family there to support her (good thing is the medical care is good and affordable).
Really not much we can do....just listen to them and be there to remind them of what is good about them and their lives. Just don't do it too much.....I tend to and get am told enough with the cheerleading!

Dh and I had a bit of a fight tonight. So stupid....freaking decorating again. I want to go espresso in the nursery furniture. The room is next to the office which is black furniture and he doesn't want two rooms next to each other with the same wood and colors. OMFG. He also doesn't want white and I don't want natural like he does. And neither want of us want oak. I wanted to save money and use my dresser already in the room which is a dark espresso/walnut color. No go on that one. I have a feeling we are going to have to find a usa baby or something and special order the furniture. maybe they have one of those in minneapolis.
And yes we actually raised voices over something like this.

Um, I have been with DH almost 15 years (will be 15 this spring). I have never had a crush on anyone else other than oh that actor is really good looking kind of thing. I work with mostly guys in my department and I like them but as coworkers....the idea of looking at them any other way is gross. And really DH and I spend pretty much all our time together so I don't even really know that many men. Even when we were first dating and in college....I was at an all women's college. LOL I have married friends of course but again, the idea of their DH's is just gross....none are my type.

[daylilies]

I have one friend whose husband is cute and loves kids and is all kinds of granola crunchy in all the ways I am not but am still attracted to for some reason. When I see him I'm just kind of envious of his wife.

[missychrissy]

I have one friend whose husband is cute and loves kids and is all kinds of granola crunchy in all the ways I am not but am still attracted to for some reason. When I see him I'm just kind of envious of his wife.

a male Bridget! I'd have a crush too. :-)

[Bridget]

I have crushes all over the place. lol . I would not even dream of acting on it, or even flirting all that much. Good lord I have more than I can handle with the one man in my life. I cannot imagine having two to deal with. In fact, if this gig does not pan out, I will bask in the glory of being alone. Then find me a woman. lol Not to have sex with, just to live with me and be cool.

Sorry you and dh had a fight Jennifer.

We have been exposed to the flu. The kids that just started back here this week, the older one has been out all week and mom tested me tonite that she took her in, she has the flu, and the sister who has been coming over all week woke up with a fever after her nap. We have been taking our berry well and eating straight garlic all week plus vitamin d drops so I am trying to stay hopeful we can fight it off.

[Bridget]

a male Bridget! I'd have a crush too. :-)

[Suja]

a male Bridget! I'd have a crush too. :-)

I agree. I have had crushes on people here and there, but never anything serious. Certainly nothing where I had any sort of angst about it.

[girlwonder]

[daylilies]

a male Bridget! I'd have a crush too. :-)

LOL well I can be attracted to that without them being male. But a lot of the females I know who are like that are too uppity about it, you know?

[Krystal5]

Chrissy. She will get there in her own time. I know it's hard not knowing how long that will be.

Janet, welcome! Nice to see you in here.

Thanks!


As for crushes and all...

First of all, I am completely with L on the "imagining the unappealing aspects". My husband drives me CRAZY (and not in a good way- he seems to put work first and us last) quite often, but he's really a wonderful, loyal, supportive man whom I love and who loves us... So sometimes when I find myself thinking "Gee, so and so seems so much more involved than my husband... What if I was with him?" I remind myself that he's probably got something even more annoying than my husband who is a total work a holic!

With that said... I don't think I've even had a crush on someone since... Well, at least since I got back from Japan at 18. Not like the all-powerful infatuation butterflies in the stomach obsession type of thing. Obviously, I was very attracted to my husband, and the boyfriends before him, but it wasn't the same type of giddiness.

I also firmly do not believe in love at first sight, though I do believe in a powerful mutual attraction. I had never really experienced... Until last year. It was the strangest thing. I got a new job, and within my first week, I met a coworker that, I must say, there were just sparks with. It was crazy. It was strong and mutual and took NO flirting on either part.

Oddly enough, he was totally not the type of guy I would ever want to build a life with, so while there was sparks and attraction, there was ZERO temptation. He was too young, first of all, and too immature, and not responsible, and didn't enjoy the same types of things as I do. I have no idea why there was that attraction between us. He quit the job a few months after I started, and I haven't seen him since.

Honestly, I think that experience just adds to my belief that you can be seriously attracted to another person while knowing nothing about them (because it was really "on first sight" for us, and I knew nothing about him except where he worked, and vice versa), but it's not love. I really don't think I ever would have been in love with him, even if I had been single and at a different point in my life. We were just too different.

Jennifer, so sorry about the fight! We tend to fight over stupid stuff, too... But we hardly ever fight over the big stuff, go figure! Hope you two are able to kiss and make up soon, if you haven't already.

Anyway... I feel kind of bad intruding on you ladies... Especially to just jump in with a stupid story about myself, haha. But I do miss being in an NET, so maybe I can try to pop in regularly and be a contributing member...?

[missychrissy]

Chrissy the fact that she's showing optimism is a great thing. I do think that it is easier for some people...like me, I tend to be an optimist and when bad sh*t happens, I wallow a bit and than start coming up with plans on how to fix it and get what I want.
...

Um, I have been with DH almost 15 years (will be 15 this spring). I have never had a crush on anyone else other than oh that actor is really good looking kind of thing. I work with mostly guys in my department and I like them but as coworkers....the idea of looking at them any other way is gross. And really DH and I spend pretty much all our time together so I don't even really know that many men. Even when we were first dating and in college....I was at an all women's college. LOL I have married friends of course but again, the idea of their DH's is just gross....none are my type.

Sorry about your argument, but I'm sure you two will come to an agreeable resolution. If you end up buying new furniture to suit his tastes, well he'll just be out $ that he doesn't need to be but that's his choice.

And I'm like you in that I do grieve for a while, but rather quickly my mind starts racing about what I can do to change x,y,z. I think Bobbie tends to be like your husband, and she takes my encouragement to get on with her life and take control as me saying "Just get over it." It's not that at all...but that's how she perceives it.

When I had my crushes, it wasn't about wanting to replace my husband at all. One in particular, I simply admired his mind. He was cool to be around and I valued him as a friend. Sure, I had thoughts of, "What if we were both single?" but we weren't, so it never went further than that. I dunno...it's difficult to explain but it wasn't about wanting someone different. Just "liking" someone in a special way.

I have crushes all over the place. lol . I would not even dream of acting on it, or even flirting all that much. Good lord I have more than I can handle with the one man in my life. I cannot imagine having two to deal with. In fact, if this gig does not pan out, I will bask in the glory of being alone. Then find me a woman. lol Not to have sex with, just to live with me and be cool.

Sorry you and dh had a fight Jennifer.

We have been exposed to the flu. The kids that just started back here this week, the older one has been out all week and mom tested me tonite that she took her in, she has the flu, and the sister who has been coming over all week woke up with a fever after her nap. We have been taking our berry well and eating straight garlic all week plus vitamin d drops so I am trying to stay hopeful we can fight it off.

Ha-that's what I'm doing! Many people are shocked that I'm not 'out there' and I've heard from more than one person that they're surprised I'm not just f'n anything and everything in sight since I'd been with Rich for 20 years. Now I'm free! I should take my opportunity and blah blah blah. I'm not interested. Not in the least. And am talking almost daily with my good female friend about renting a place for a year together. It will help us both catch up financially, and we get along very, very well.

I hope no one in your house gets the flu.

I also firmly do not believe in love at first sight, though I do believe in a powerful mutual attraction. I had never really experienced... Until last year. It was the strangest thing. I got a new job, and within my first week, I met a coworker that, I must say, there were just sparks with. It was crazy. It was strong and mutual and took NO flirting on either part.

---

Anyway... I feel kind of bad intruding on you ladies... Especially to just jump in with a stupid story about myself, haha. But I do miss being in an NET, so maybe I can try to pop in regularly and be a contributing member...?

Oh, I believe in love at first sight. As soon as I met Rich, I had that physical shock-heart skipped a beat, raced, electricity coursed through me. And my first thought was, "It's him. The one I'm going to marry." I immediately talked myself out of it, told myself it was just teenage hormones because I was already in a relationship with someone I was 'in love' with. All of 15 too. I avoided Rich for a year but did end up dating him after that other relationship fell apart. I just knew. We had to get to know each other, but it was really instinctive for me to know on a different level that we were absolutely compatible intellectually and philosophically. And we're total opposites in many ways. I don't think any Match.com site would ever pair us up, but there was a balance and a chemistry...in fact, it's still there. I'm glad I had my kids with him and for a separated couple we get along better than most married couples. We got 20 years together and if he didn't drink we'd still be together. I can still see myself living with him till death...if only the alcohol weren't a factor. I'm not afraid that I won't find that again, or that another relationship that can't fulfill me in a different way. But I'm equally not afraid of living out the rest of my life alone. I'm not looking, but if things lined up right I wouldn't be afraid to try again with someone new. I can't go back with Rich simply because I lost faith that he can stop drinking forever. He's done it for years at a time, but even if he's sober 6 years and starts again, it's a roller coaster I've decided I cannot ride on any longer.

eta: I was gonna say-you absolutely are NOT intruding!!! Post when you can. You're more than welcome here and certainly feel like a good 'fit' to me.

[Suja]

When I had my crushes, it wasn't about wanting to replace my husband at all. One in particular, I simply admired his mind. He was cool to be around and I valued him as a friend. Sure, I had thoughts of, "What if we were both single?" but we weren't, so it never went further than that. I dunno...it's difficult to explain but it wasn't about wanting someone different. Just "liking" someone in a special way.

Totally, this. There has been a very good friend that really connected with me on an intellectual level, and I really enjoyed just being in his presence. The thought of it being anything more than a friendship never crossed my mind.

I don't believe in love at first sight, but I do believe in lust at first sight.

On the radio, I heard that we just had the first "snow event" of the winter. We have maybe, an inch of snow on the ground. The schools near me had delayed openings, and some schools are actually closed. It's utterly ridiculous.

[demigraf]

Hi, Janet. Welcome. Not that it matters - and I'm just being nosy, but - are you secular? We have ladies in here who believe, but they stick around out of simpatico attitudes and the mutual feeling that they just belong in here. I really only ask because I just hope that when our discussion leans toward skepticism and sometimes even cynicism about religion (which it can do) that it won't offend you.

Katy, totally read it. Sounds like it was exciting (ETA: and perfectly innocent!), and I loved the language you used to describe it.

Bridget, ugh on the sickness hitting your home. It sounds like you've fully engaged the "immunity protocol" in your home, so I hope that does its magic and contributes to a speedy recovery. Is M still bugging you? That can't be easy to deal with on top of the flu. :/

Jennifer, so sorry you fought with DH. I'll never forget the "pickled oak vs golden pecan debate" I had with my hubby when we were staining our floors. I questioned our entire compatibility (just like I did when We couldn't agree on a wedding dance song). A year later, when we went with dark walnut in another room and loved it, I think we realized we were both wrong. LOL. Hope things are better by now.

Funnily enough, I sort of predicted that out of the ladies in here, Jennifer was gonna say she never crushed on someone else, Suja was gonna be all "yeah, what about it?" about it, and L was gonna say she didn't let herself go there. I mean, I thought that's what you guys were gonna say anyway. Not to call you guys predictable. I'm just happy I actually made a prediction in this case that was somewhat accurate. It means maybe I know the ladies I love in here.

I think the internal boundaries issue that L raised is interesting. I have a few when it comes to the opposite sex. Like if it becomes overt flirtation on his part, that's usually a natural turn-off, and even if it's not a turn-off and I want to flirt back, I would put the brakes on it because it starts to feel karmically wrong. Like, I don't want to feel anything that would contribute any dissatisfaction to my marriage. I think part of the enjoyable fantasy aspect in my mind is that the object of my limerence/crush would never act on any attraction to me because he knows I'm attached and he's probably attached too, and if he would act on it, it'd break the fantasy of what a good guy he is. Maybe that's why I never pick an unattached guy as my object. I think I compartmentalize things in my life fairly easily. I can put sexual attaction in its place as just that and live with it as a fun fact of life. I know that one person in a romance can't be everything to everybody, so when I do feel that buzz for someone else, I interpret it as just spackel in the cracks and me appreciating the other dude for the things he has that DH doesn't. Then I take the sexual tension and bring it home. I find that crushes on others actually enhance my sex life. ;)

On love at first sight, never felt it as far as I can tell. But when I finally fell in love with DH, it was like nothing I ever felt for another man ever. It was this overwhelming sense of his goodness, a serenity, and like I was home. It actually felt like a paperweight was on me and sticking me to him. I never felt remotely "limerent" towards him, because he was so clear about his feelings towards me, never gave me reason to wonder excitedly if he was into me, so we jumped right away into a full blown romance. It was really pretty awesome, thinking back on it. Anyway, part of what I appreciate about being drawn to someone else is the secondary affirmation it gives me that what DH and I have built is qualitatively better. Anything that could ever come out of acting on my attraction to someone else couldn't possibly be as fulfilling.

[missychrissy]

I think the internal boundaries issue that L raised is interesting. I have a few when it comes to the opposite sex. Like if it becomes overt flirtation on his part, that's usually a natural turn-off, and even it's not a turn-off and I want to flirt back, I would put the brakes on it because it starts to feel karmically wrong. Like, I don't want to feel anything that would contribute any dissatisfaction to my marriage. I think part of the enjoyable fantasy aspect in my mind is that the object of my limerence/crush would never act on any attraction to me because he knows I'm attached and he's probably attached too, and if he would act on it, it'd break the fantasy of what a good guy he is. Maybe that's why I never pick an unattached guy as my object. I think I compartmentalize things in my life fairly easily. I can put sexual attaction in its place as just that and live with it as a fun fact of
life. I know that one person in a romance can't be everything to everybody, so when I do feel that buzz for someone else, I interpret it as just spackel in the cracks me appreciating the other dude for the things he has that DH doesn't. Then I take the sexual tension and bring it home. I find that crushes on others actually enhance my sex life. ;)

On love at first sight, never felt it as far as I can tell. But when I finally fell in love with DH, it was like nothing I ever felt for another man ever. It was this overwhelming sense of his goodness, a serenity, and like I was home. It actually felt like a paperweight was on me and sticking me to him. I never felt remotely "limerent" towards him, because he was so clear about his feelings towards me, never gave me reason to wonder excitedly if he was into me, so we jumped right away into a full blown romance. It was really pretty awesome, thinking back on it. Anyway, part of what I appreciate about being drawn to someone else is the secondary affirmation it gives me that what DH and I have built is qualitatively better. Anything that could ever come out of acting on my attraction to someone else couldn't possibly be as fulfilling.

Interesting...I can be an overt flirt, depending. Sometimes, it depends on the amount of alcohol, but sometimes not. I'll admit to flirting with my coworker right now. But it's never, ever going anywhere. I genuinely like him as a person, and his humor is awesome. But like you, if he were to suddenly take me seriously, or if I started to feel like I were taking him seriously, it would be a turn off for me and I'd put a stop to it. Nicely, of course, because I like and respect him and wouldn't want to hurt his feelings or change our great working relationship in any way. There are some guys (very few) where I've felt comfortable being like this with. Mostly, they're just kinda flirty in general and the sole purpose is just for fun. To laugh. But I don't like the flirting that comes from a place where there's real desire to just get it on. That instantly disgusts me and somehow, I've always been able to tell the difference.

As for your 2nd paragraph, I can relate wholeheartedly to all of it. But...what if your marriage wasn't in a good place at all and hadn't been for quite a long time? If someone else came along that you felt connected and giddy with? I only ask because I'm a firm believer in affairs are generally a symptom of a problem, not the problem itself. Unless, of course, someone is a chronic cheater. They're just completely messed up. But then, if I became involved with someone that had that history, I guess I shouldn't be surprised when he did it to me. Since I personally had a great track record of staying faithful, even through difficult times, I don't worry about this being an issue for me personally, but I can see where it could happen. I don't always assume a person that cheats is evil. Stuff happens sometimes.

[Suja]

Aw man, now I have to go find me a limerance. Thanks a lot, Myles. I don't have time for it!

[Cosmosmom]

Oh yeah we are fine now. Fights never last that long for us. I am glad that we aren't the only ones to fight over decorating. Thank god we generally have the same taste or building the house could have been a nightmare.

LOL That is great that you predicted us so well M! I had to really think about it. There was only this one time....there was a guy from high school who was in all my classes and I had a crush on him at points in time in high school. But he was also the kind of guy most of the girls had a crush on....and even knowing that, he was still a nice guy to everyone. Anyway the one time in my life that I went to a bar with a friend back home, he happened to be there. Still nice, still cute, and now a doctor (and nothing attracts me more than smart). If we had contact, I could see a limerence there.

I cannot tell if I had love at first sight with DH. We had communicated via emails and phone calls for a few months before I laid eyes on him. I didn't even get a picture until AFTER we met...this was still in teh 90's and people didn't have all the digital pictures. So I knew that I really liked his personality....and when we met in person I did feel "it" right away. I was like, wow he's cute too!
Really wasn't much questioning for us either...a few dates and we were officially a couple. And together ever since. Hard to believe that it was almost 15 years ago already.

[missychrissy]

Aw man, now I have to go find me a limerance. Thanks a lot, Myles. I don't have time for it!

Don't let us be a 'bad' influence! Or, maybe...it could be fun.

Oh yeah we are fine now. Fights never last that long for us. I am glad that we aren't the only ones to fight over decorating. Thank god we generally have the same taste or building the house could have been a nightmare.

LOL That is great that you predicted us so well M! I had to really think about it. There was only this one time....there was a guy from high school who was in all my classes and I had a crush on him at points in time in high school. But he was also the kind of guy most of the girls had a crush on....and even knowing that, he was still a nice guy to everyone. Anyway the one time in my life that I went to a bar with a friend back home, he happened to be there. Still nice, still cute, and now a doctor (and nothing attracts me more than smart). If we had contact, I could see a limerence there.

I cannot tell if I had love at first sight with DH. We had communicated via emails and phone calls for a few months before I laid eyes on him. I didn't even get a picture until AFTER we met...this was still in teh 90's and people didn't have all the digital pictures. So I knew that I really liked his personality....and when we met in person I did feel "it" right away. I was like, wow he's cute too!
Really wasn't much questioning for us either...a few dates and we were officially a couple. And together ever since. Hard to believe that it was almost 15 years ago already.

I love how Myles easily predicted the group as well. I do think it's a sign of how well she knows her dear friends...and that's a good thing.

I like your 'how I met my husband' story. It's sweet. I'd say that even now, Rich & I don't hang on to anger. Well, obviously I do because I can't get over the whole alcoholism stuff and I did allow my resentment to completely destroy my 'in love' feelings for him. Or maybe I didn't allow it. He chose not to do anything about it. I told him early on at the end of things that I felt that happening and he didn't change one thing. But as far as the kids, and some other relationship stuff...if we disagree it doesn't matter how heatedly. Once it's resolved, it's resolved. We don't revisit those arguments again.

[pepperlru]

I've been thinking about popping in and finally did it. I hope you all don't mind.

Limerence is a great word. I've never felt it while married. I don't get out much.

Wait. Does it count if it's completely imaginary? Because that's been happening to me a little bit lately. My dh is a generous, loving guy and a very good husband, and I love him dearly, but he's dropped the ball a little this fall when it's come to my health issues. He's been very busy and stressed at work on a big project, and maybe too it's that he's a typical guy who seems to worry less about these kinds of things than we might ... but I've been surprised and hurt by how little attention he's paid to what's going on with me. I realized recently that he doesn't even know my exact issues. He'd be clueless if he had to explain it to someone. It's not that I haven't talked to him about it, either. It just seems to float over his head. Most of the time, I'm able to forgive this. I'm focused on the positive and consciously letting go of petty resentment. But I find that whenever I imagine seeing a new doctor (which is happening often these days -- I'll be meeting some new ones soon, and since I live a lot in my head, I constantly imagine how the meetings will go), I fantasize about him or her. I fantasize that the doctor will look into my eyes with fascination as I talk about what's going on. Will ask lots of perceptive, curious, investigative questions. Will give me a thorough, gentle examination -- look at my skin, my fingernails, check my lymph nodes, listen carefully to my heart, slowly and carefully palpate my abdomen. I fantasize that he'll sit up at night thinking about my blood.

That's so dorky, right? But that's what happens. If there's a chink somewhere, we instinctively try to fill it. And I think what's good about that is that it gives us insight into ourselves. It delineates where we are vulnerable, or where we need shoring up, so we can throw in some spackle (love that!).

[Bridget]

I think I have told you guys before how my bff and I used to always joke about how we wanted kids but no man so we'd have to have a one night stand. After a few glasses of wine we still joke about running away together with our 3 kids.
After this week I'm about there. Everyone always asks how hard it is when he travels and seriously it is harder when he's here sometimes. It's no secret that Sawyer is hard to understand. So here is a scenario that happens multiple times a day when I leave S alone in a room with dbf.
"Daddy anya."
"I don't know what you are saying"
"Daddy anya" (increase volume)
I don't know what you are saying
"Daddy anya (almost a scream)
"I can't understand you."
"DADDY ANYA!" (full fledged scream)
"Stop screaming at me"
"WHAAAAAAAH. MAMAMAMAMAMA!" (pattering feet running to find me so I have to stop what I am doing to comfort him.)
If he would close the effing ipad, look Sawyer in the eye, ENGAGE THE CHILD, the whole scenario would be averted. The best he does is try to divert Sawyer's attention by letting him join him in whatever idiotic game he's playing on the ipad and then gets frustrated and says "all done" when Sawyer starts wacking the sh!t out of the screen (because video games are BEYOND inappropriate for a freaking 2 year old, I've said 948383 times) and then S has another tantrum so I have to stop what I am doing to go comfort him.

2nd Scenario: Bedtime. I do every single thing to get them ready. The only thing dbf has to do is Kai's tuck in. Kai has a really hard time winding down at bedtime as him mind is just going going going. So when he is supposed to be getting into bed, he is often instead following me around telling me something that is important to him or asking me questions. I truly do not see this as Kai's way of avoiding bed. He really feels like he needs to say these things. I will let him speak and then gently keep reminding to him to get into his bed and get ready for his tuck in. This behavior is the whole reason I start the bedtime routine an hour before I want him going to sleep. Keep in mind here during this hour, dbf is usually sitting in his chair, on his ipad. Last night (and multiple nights prior) he snaps on Kai and says that he's not doing his tuck in because it's taking him too long to lay down. Then he goes on to tell me how frustrating bedtime is with Kai. "Really?" I say. "Which part? The part where you're sitting in your chair playing your ipad or the part where you're sitting in your chair playing your ipad?" Then he tells me I'm mean. To which I say get the eff up and tuck in your child. That is not something you take away because he's not acting exactly the way you want him to act.

When he's not here the above 2 scenarios do not happen, you see? Sawyer has better luck playing alone in the living room than trying to talk to his dad. And Kai doens't have to live up to anyone's expectations in order to "earn" a hug goodnight.
Now today he says to me, "Do you want to get out of the house and go to Costco? Give you a break?" So I'm like, "Go alone?" and he says no we all go to which I explain that's not a break. That's work. If he wants to give me a break he can take the kids and go. He' says, "I guess if that's waht you want."
Forget it dude. He always tries to act like I'm just better at parenting but honestly that's just an excuse for him to put no effort in.

Thanks for letting me vent

[Bridget]

Does it count if it's a tv character? Right now I'm in love with Coach from Friday Night Lights since that's what dbf and I are watching. He's a good husband.

Myles, LOVE how you describe your feelings for your Dh. That's simply awesome.

Pepperlu, I once read something about how a lot of pregnant women develop crushed on their ob because he listens to all of their needs and complaints and is totally focused on them during that time. Sadly, a lot of women don't get that at home.

[Suja]

I'm nominating Bridget for sainthood. I'd probably be in jail, in Bridget's shoes.

We do go through similar stuff like that here as well, because DH is such a workaholic, but at least he takes my input seriously. Which reminds me that it's time to remind him once again that he is slipping back into his old ways, and the world really will not come crashing down if he doesn't check email for the 30 minutes or so that he's home in the evening before Mira goes to bed.

Mira had an absolute meltdown yesterday at Trader Joe's. Over paper towel (which she was wasting, and I put an end to). The good news is that all the adults seemed to be understanding of what was going on. The bad news was that we really needed milk, so I couldn't just up and leave, so we had to subject the nice people to the kicking and screaming and nonsense. So now, she has lost her Play-Doh, her art supplies and Elmo. It's too soon to tell if she understands that the way to get what she wants is to behave, not escalate.

[missychrissy]

I've been thinking about popping in and finally did it. I hope you all don't mind.

Limerence is a great word. I've never felt it while married. I don't get out much.

Wait. Does it count if it's completely imaginary? Because that's been happening to me a little bit lately. My dh is a generous, loving guy and a very good husband, and I love him dearly, but he's dropped the ball a little this fall when it's come to my health issues. He's been very busy and stressed at work on a big project, and maybe too it's that he's a typical guy who seems to worry less about these kinds of things than we might ... but I've been surprised and hurt by how little attention he's paid to what's going on with me. I realized recently that he doesn't even know my exact issues. He'd be clueless if he had to explain it to someone. It's not that I haven't talked to him about it, either. It just seems to float over his head. Most of the time, I'm able to forgive this. I'm focused on the positive and consciously letting go of petty resentment. But I find that whenever I imagine seeing a new doctor (which is happening often these days -- I'll be meeting some new ones soon, and since I live a lot in my head, I constantly imagine how the meetings will go), I fantasize about him or her. I fantasize that the doctor will look into my eyes with fascination as I talk about what's going on. Will ask lots of perceptive, curious, investigative questions. Will give me a thorough, gentle examination -- look at my skin, my fingernails, check my lymph nodes, listen carefully to my heart, slowly and carefully palpate my abdomen. I fantasize that he'll sit up at night thinking about my blood.

That's so dorky, right? But that's what happens. If there's a chink somewhere, we instinctively try to fill it. And I think what's good about that is that it gives us insight into ourselves. It delineates where we are vulnerable, or where we need shoring up, so we can throw in some spackle (love that!).

Welcome We love having new members join us!

I think those fantasies are totally normal, especially if you're having medical issues. Without knowing your dh, it's hard to guess why he checks out in regards to your health, but I'm sure it's not due to lack of caring about you. Perhaps it's more to do with the helplessness of it all. Because he can't fix it, he doesn't allow himself to think about it at all. It can appear insensitive, but not be at the same time.

I'm nominating Bridget for sainthood. I'd probably be in jail, in Bridget's shoes.

We do go through similar stuff like that here as well, because DH is such a workaholic, but at least he takes my input seriously. Which reminds me that it's time to remind him once again that he is slipping back into his old ways, and the world really will not come crashing down if he doesn't check email for the 30 minutes or so that he's home in the evening before Mira goes to bed.

Mira had an absolute meltdown yesterday at Trader Joe's. Over paper towel (which she was wasting, and I put an end to). The good news is that all the adults seemed to be understanding of what was going on. The bad news was that we really needed milk, so I couldn't just up and leave, so we had to subject the nice people to the kicking and screaming and nonsense. So now, she has lost her Play-Doh, her art supplies and Elmo. It's too soon to tell if she understands that the way to get what she wants is to behave, not escalate.

I'll second that nomination of Bridget. I honestly do not know how you do it B, and I'm not a bit surprised to read you find it easier when he's not around. I wish he'd be a little bit of a help to you, instead of making things harder.

I hate temper tantrums, but I hate them even more in public. Hopefully she'll put it together really quick that doing that in the store will not get her anywhere.

[Suja]

This is her first, and hopefully, last tantrum in public. Every afternoon, when I pick her up, she asks me where we're going. Since we do all our errands after I pick her up (I try to free up the weekends to do nothing much that needs doing), we end up going to some store or the other. I told her yesterday that she has lost all her store going privileges, that I will not have her behave that way in public, and she has to earn that back with being nice, polite, and considerate. I need to drop off Khan's urine sample at the vet, so I'll just leave early to do that, instead of doing it after picking her up (more convenient, and she loves playing with the toys there).

[Bridget]

Public tantrums suck really bad. Lately Sawyer has been SO loud. Last night we went out for sushi and he was crazy loud at the restaurant. Luckily we were early enough that not many people were there and the waitresses LOVE him. It's the only place we eat here in town so they see us about once a month. Everytime we are there the two japanese girls who are the owner's daughters try to get him to come to them. He won't but he loves the attention. Last night though, the one said, "Come on baby. Come to me. I have candy." Savana said, "We are supposed to run if anyone ever says that to us!" lol. I was like yeah, please don't say that!
The other place he's been a terror is the library and we've had to rush to leave twice now because he won't be quiet. I don't know how crucial that is in the children's section but it's mortifying enough to me that I don't want to be there anymore.

[Bridget]

This is her first, and hopefully, last tantrum in public. Every afternoon, when I pick her up, she asks me where we're going. Since we do all our errands after I pick her up (I try to free up the weekends to do nothing much that needs doing), we end up going to some store or the other. I told her yesterday that she has lost all her store going privileges, that I will not have her behave that way in public, and she has to earn that back with being nice, polite, and considerate. I need to drop off Khan's urine sample at the vet, so I'll just leave early to do that, instead of doing it after picking her up (more convenient, and she loves playing with the toys there).

First and last public tantrum?? If that's true, you have a doll of child, my friend!

[demigraf]

Well, hello, there, Gretchen! So happy to see you in here. No, I don’t think it’s silly at all that you fantasize about an attentive doctor. I think I’d be hurt if my hubby didn’t appear concerned about my illness. Could it be, though, that yours is just super-freaked out about it? I have to confess that I haven’t become as involved in the minutiae of my father’s Parkinson’s as I could – well, partly because my mom & sister have their hands all over that pudding , but also - because an avoidance mechanism has kicked in, where I don’t like to think about his suffering and diminishing health. And if I had a big project, it’d be almost a comfort for me to be able to hide in it. When it comes to talking about the disease with my dad, sometimes I stupidly don’t know what to say. I don’t want to sound chipper in any hollow kind of way, but I also don’t want to sound gloomy either. However, if my dad were to say to me, “it hurts that you don’t appear to care enough about my illness to learn about it, to share my worries with me”, I’d sit up and step up my game. Maybe you should tell your hubby how his disengagement makes you feel?
As an aside: I’m mad at my iPhone because I’d originally spelled the word “spackle” and it dinged the word as wrong. And when I changed it to “spackel”, it didn’t ding me. I now see the first spelling was correct. Fargin’ Autocorrect!

Bridget, I’m so sorry that M keeps playing that same game over and over with you. Ugh. I can sort of relate. DH & I never quite see eye-to-eye on how much slack/benefit of the doubt we should cut Bodhi, and it always makes me sad if he talks to Bodhi in the “you should’ve known better tone” because no, our child who just got out of diapers really can’t be expected to know better. Perhaps his job will be a good long-term situation in which to ride out your small children’s childhoods with little of his interference. I just have to wonder what M thinks is a good father, and if he thinks he’s living up to his own expectations of himself. Part of my DHs’ shortcomings as a father (IMO) is that he came from such a stern dad, that he thinks he needs to exercise the same amount of control over B, even though he acknowledges that his dad is an a-hole today and he doesn’t want to end up like him. So even when DH is being kind of a dill towards Bodhi, it’s all in the name of being a good dad. Is it like that with M?

Aw man, now I have to go find me a limerance. Thanks a lot, Myles. I don't have time for it!

LOL, Suja. I love your no-nonsense self, so don’t go changin’ things up now. (Although I do enjoy the vision of you getting a schoolgirl crush on someone who reduces you to putty, simply because you’re so no-nonsense.)

Interesting...I can be an overt flirt, depending. Sometimes, it depends on the amount of alcohol, but sometimes not. I'll admit to flirting with my coworker right now. But it's never, ever going anywhere. I genuinely like him as a person, and his humor is awesome. But like you, if he were to suddenly take me seriously, or if I started to feel like I were taking him seriously, it would be a turn off for me and I'd put a stop to it. Nicely, of course, because I like and respect him and wouldn't want to hurt his feelings or change our great working relationship in any way. There are some guys (very few) where I've felt comfortable being like this with. Mostly, they're just kinda flirty in general and the sole purpose is just for fun. To laugh. But I don't like the flirting that comes from a place where there's real desire to just get it on. That instantly disgusts me and somehow, I've always been able to tell the difference.

As for your 2nd paragraph, I can relate wholeheartedly to all of it. But...what if your marriage wasn't in a good place at all and hadn't been for quite a long time? If someone else came along that you felt connected and giddy with? I only ask because I'm a firm believer in affairs are generally a symptom of a problem, not the problem itself. Unless, of course, someone is a chronic cheater. They're just completely messed up. But then, if I became involved with someone that had that history, I guess I shouldn't be surprised when he did it to me. Since I personally had a great track record of staying faithful, even through difficult times, I don't worry about this being an issue for me personally, but I can see where it could happen. I don't always assume a person that cheats is evil. Stuff happens sometimes.

Women who flirt tend to be able to pull it off more playfully. Don’t know exactly why. The only parallel I can come up with at this time is the difference between a male strip club and a female strip club. For my sister’s bachelorette party, we went to a strip club in Vegas that was female strippers on the ground floor and “Magic Mike” action for the ladies upstairs. When we had to walk through the first floor to get upstairs, the men in the audience made me totally uncomfortable. They were quiet, looking like they were “trying to play it cool”, and staring at the women like they were trying to will them to go home with them. The women upstairs were just silly and laughing, shrieking like little girls. There are exceptions, of course, and I’m not saying that men are morally inferior to women, but I dunno. Different wiring just makes me less likely to trust a guy if he’s openly flirting with me. In my mind, I guess I think either a) he’s just a flirt and does that with everyone, so why be flattered by it? or b) he’s overtly flirting with me because he likes me, even though he knows I’m attached and ewwww.
To your second point, I agree that people can get swept away by affairs. People make regrettable mistakes, and cheating doesn’t automatically make them bad people. If your relationship wasn't in a good place at all and hadn't been for quite a long time, though, one would ideally hope that you put the effort into fixing it, confirmed once and for all it was over and initiated a separation before embarking on a relationship with another person. I think it’s not too much to ask for a spouse to have that much self-discipline. At least, that’s what DH & I have agreed on as our exit strategy if it ever came to that. But I get it. Stuff happens. I guess if it gets to the point that stuff happened, it all boils down to what you do to self-correct once the damage has been done, how long you’re willing to carry on a lie, how honest you are with yourself about the people you’re hurting, how much you’re willing to apologize and face the hurt you caused before getting defensive about it. The two recent cheaters I’ve known personally (my sister, and my DH’s brother’s ex-wife) were horrible, self-righteous liars who blamed their spouses for forcing them into their situations, so I’m not in the best place to speak objectively about people who might be perfectly nice folks who just happen to cheat.

[demigraf]

So guys, I came into the office this morning and got an e-mail in my Inbox with subject line of “Requisition”. It came from a sr. manager of a team I met with once, and it said,

“Hey M, just letting you know that I have an [opening on my team for your same position, but] from the business side. Let me know if you are interested.

Cheers!
M”

By the way, this sr. manager happens to be my boss’ sister. I have a feeling this is a test, and here’s why: I've come to strongly suspect that my boss is a “dangler”. Like, if this were a Seinfeld episode, that’d be her nickname “The Dangler”. During my interview, one of the first things she mentioned before I even sat down was that she was also trying to fill a fulltime position, saying she has a couple open on her team. After she hired me, she again brought it up out of nowhere. Both times I told her, I would be interested and to consider my hat thrown in the ring whenever she takes any real action to fill the job. I haven’t heard anything from her about it since then. Another time, we were talking about my next projects, and she asked: “Are you open to international travel?” and I quickly answered yes. She then in the same meeting assigned me to 3 domestic projects. Maybe it’s my imagination, but it seems like she “dangles” attractive prospects in front of her workers as a way to motivate, and maybe even disappoint.

I don’t know her that well, so I can’t say for sure that she’s that malicious, especially because I speak with her only 5 minutes a week. However, I find it a red flag that she randomly throws things out there that get me kind of hopeful, and then they turn out to be nothing. Plus, some people are weird paranoiacs, and if my boss really is that manipulative, and if this other manager is her sister, it seems in the realm of possibility that my manager put her up to this to test if I’d allow myself to be poached.

I mean, it was a totally out-of-the-blue e-mail. If she were serious, you’d think she would have pointed me to the job posting and requisition number on the company intranet. Just like if my own boss had been serious about converting me to fulltime on her team, she would have gotten the ball rolling on it by now. It’s been almost 3 months.

OK, guys, so what’s my move in response to this e-mail? As it just so happens, ever since last year, when I almost got hired by the bank, the idea of dropping out of the consulting game has been really appealing to me. I’m tired of job shopping every 6-12 months. I just want to have another baby and let my employer pay for it. At my current company, the fulltime wages are almost as high as the consultants’ pay, and the benefits are amazing here (my personal favorite: a sabbatical every 5 years). This place is so close to my home. And did I mention I love the gym here? Long story short, this is a really attractive carrot being dangled in front of me right now. I just hope it’s not an exploding carrot.

Thinking of responding along the lines of: “Thanks so much for your consideration. If your requisition is for a FTE position, I would, in fact, be interested. However, I would not depart my current assignment if it creates a hardship for my current team. If a transition is possible that is transparent and allows D (my boss) time to make the necessary adjustments , I would like to pursue this requisition further with you.” Thoughts?