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Thread: Secular Confessions

  1. #37471
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    Could be a thyroid thing, Jennifer, although I think I have always had poor circulation. Even as a little kid my feet and legs would fall asleep when we had to sit on the cafeteria floor at school for assemblies and stuff. I used to think that was normal so I never complained about it, but apparently it isn't!
    Me (40) DH (47) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

  2. #37472

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    I can't wear straight wool, but smartwool socks are great. Cotton + winter = bad
    AKA Lisa724

  3. #37473
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    Hmmm, my arms and legs fall asleep pretty easily too....

    Jennifer, 35, DH 36

  4. #37474

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    Quote Originally Posted by girlwonder View Post
    Pure f-in' stupid. One person with a scope on a high powered rifle can take care of that easily - just like the DC sniper(s)? I didn't expect such a truly ridiculous, short-sighted (blind to reality) statement from the NRA. As a friend of mine said, "The NRA jumped the shark today." I'm not venturing into the other thread because my getting upset and mad will do nothing to help the situation, and I can't stand to see such stupidity and siege mentality. It's one of their own who does it every time, but they act as if THEY are the ones who are attacked. The NRA doesn't understand that the ground is shifting and they have to change or get buried.
    I guess that makes me pure effin stupid then! I'm all for gun control for sure but that will take years before we see results. I'd like to see immediate and drastic security measures in schools. This school shooting is causing such huge waves in our world right now we are begging for a copycat.

  5. #37475

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    It's stupid to think that one armed guard at a school will stop a person who is determined to kill. This is a stop-gap measure that will do nothing to change the gun culture we are living in, to change the mind of the person who wants to do this, to keep that person from getting hold of an automatic/assault weapon. It's not stupid to want to protect our children in the short term this way, but it is stupid to think that this is all that we need to do and everything will be just fine. This is just what the NRA is saying, which, in my mind, is stupid.

    "Any idiot can face a crisis; it is this day-to-day living that wears you out." -Anton Chekhov


  6. #37476

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmosmom View Post
    Hmmm, my arms and legs fall asleep pretty easily too....
    Mine too, Jennifer. I would bet, as with every other thing, that this is somehow thyroid related.

    "Any idiot can face a crisis; it is this day-to-day living that wears you out." -Anton Chekhov


  7. #37477
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlwonder View Post
    It's stupid to think that one armed guard at a school will stop a person who is determined to kill. This is a stop-gap measure that will do nothing to change the gun culture we are living in, to change the mind of the person who wants to do this, to keep that person from getting hold of an automatic/assault weapon. It's not stupid to want to protect our children in the short term this way, but it is stupid to think that this is all that we need to do and everything will be just fine. This is just what the NRA is saying, which, in my mind, is stupid.
    I really think the answer lies at getting to the root of the problems. Which means never allowing anyone to get to such a state that they WANT to kill a bunch of innocent children (or anyone, but most especially innocent children). Whatever you are looking at, whether it is security or society or mental health or whatever, we all benefit from a more mentally stable population.

    An Early Intervention is part of it! My coworker and I intend to write a letter to our district administration discussing the five children we have seen this year that needed intervention for emotional/behavioral problems and weren't able to receive a service we offer because they weren't delayed in two areas. If they had an articulation delay, like saying "tat" instead of "cat" we could qualify them just for that - but anything else they have to have two areas and because they speak well, they don't qualify. Like having a child who plays violent video games all day and violently attacks their mother at age four is fine if it's the only problem. But heaven forbid they say "tat" instead of "cat" - get that child special ed preschool! This is a major problem and it really does start this soon. The problem is making people care, and even more so, willing to pay for getting them help. They people denying these kids services are just as much at risk of being shot by them 10-15 years from now as anyone else. You'd think they'd want to solve the problem.

    /end rant. Sorry.
    Me (40) DH (47) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

  8. #37478

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    Quote Originally Posted by girlwonder View Post
    It's stupid to think that one armed guard at a school will stop a person who is determined to kill. This is a stop-gap measure that will do nothing to change the gun culture we are living in, to change the mind of the person who wants to do this, to keep that person from getting hold of an automatic/assault weapon. It's not stupid to want to protect our children in the short term this way, but it is stupid to think that this is all that we need to do and everything will be just fine. This is just what the NRA is saying, which, in my mind, is stupid.
    Totally agree.

  9. #37479
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    That is why I am torn. Of course I want protection for it to not happen again. But I don't know if that is the answer. It is so easy to do damage. What about recess and a sniper? Or field trips? Do I want to live in a society where we have armed guards all over? I have to admit that it creeped me out to fly after 911 and see armed guards walking about. Is that something we want kids to see in their schools? How well trained would they be? I mean we had recently trained officers shooting at someone in NYC and hit nine innocent bystanders. It makes one wonder how many kids would be accidently shot.

    Jennifer, 35, DH 36

  10. #37480
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwenn View Post
    An Early Intervention is part of it! My coworker and I intend to write a letter to our district administration discussing the five children we have seen this year that needed intervention for emotional/behavioral problems and weren't able to receive a service we offer because they weren't delayed in two areas. If they had an articulation delay, like saying "tat" instead of "cat" we could qualify them just for that - but anything else they have to have two areas and because they speak well, they don't qualify. Like having a child who plays violent video games all day and violently attacks their mother at age four is fine if it's the only problem. But heaven forbid they say "tat" instead of "cat" - get that child special ed preschool! This is a major problem and it really does start this soon. The problem is making people care, and even more so, willing to pay for getting them help. They people denying these kids services are just as much at risk of being shot by them 10-15 years from now as anyone else. You'd think they'd want to solve the problem.

    /end rant. Sorry.
    Amen to this!

  11. #37481
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmeriBrit View Post
    Amen to this!
    Yes, Ashley, you are working in a school setting and know exactly the kids I am talking about. I can pick them out, even as preschoolers.
    Me (40) DH (47) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

  12. #37482

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    Oh Mandy and you are so right.

  13. #37483
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    I actually do agree that gun control is too easy an answer. Sure, restricting access to guns will keep guns out of the hands of people who are crazy. But to me the problem is not whether or not they have access to a gun - the problem is that they are crazy in the first place. Our society is sick, and we need to put some serious thought into how to fix it. DH is military and very pro-gun so I do come from a gun-friendly background. I agree that it's too easy to get hold of very dangerous weapons and there need to be restrictions and background checks and provisions in place. But the real problem here is much, much deeper and we can't have a serious discussion without looking at what we need to heal our population. I wish I knew what that was.
    Me (40) DH (47) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

  14. #37484

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    That's true, Mandy. So there's the quick fix (NRA armed guards), the long-term fix (some form of gun control, more attention paid to mental health), and the culture fix (how to heal the population, change our culture). I agree with the the latter two. The first makes me deeply uncomfortable for many reasons, not least of which is that some might see that as the long term cultural fix. It's not simple at all, but if we all agree that we don't want any more children to die then it seems like we ought to be able to come up with something that will protect them and not just be a placebo or a further devolving of our culture into a proto-fascist state where gun violence is the norm.

    "Any idiot can face a crisis; it is this day-to-day living that wears you out." -Anton Chekhov


  15. #37485

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    Oh, and just so everyone knows: I come from a very gun-friendly background as well. Grew up with guns, had them in the house when I was growing up, have a shotgun in the house right now. I don't want to ban all guns, I just want people-hunting guns to be limited/banned. There's no reason for someone outside the military or highly trained police to have guns whose only purpose is to destroy as many humans as possible in as short a time as possible. You don't use that kind of weapon to hunt animals for food. You use it to kill people.

    "Any idiot can face a crisis; it is this day-to-day living that wears you out." -Anton Chekhov


  16. #37486

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    The reason I can get behind armed gaurds at the door is not that I don't agree with everything that you ladies are saying. I do. 100%. I guess I'm being driven by the fear that this could happen again tomorrow. That fear is making me wan't something immediate.

  17. #37487

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    It's too pat, too easy. I am all for feeling more secure and safety for my children, but it won't solve the problem. Like Jennifer said - what about field trips, what about going to the park or to a show? It can happen anywhere at any time. And who is the person holding the gun? Do you trust this person implicitly? Are they up on their training for combat situations? Can you trust him/her to keep their head in a situation like that? We need to cure the disease, not put a band-aid on and hope for the best.

    "Any idiot can face a crisis; it is this day-to-day living that wears you out." -Anton Chekhov


  18. #37488
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    I agree with you, Kate. We can't live in a culture of fear. To be trite, that would mean "the terrorists win." I can understand why you feel that way, though, Bridget.

    Oh - and yay! I'm home on Winter Break! When we go back we will be going to our new site.
    Me (40) DH (47) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

  19. #37489

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    I certainly don't want to live in fear but I am very scared.

    Yay for winter break and new beginnings!

  20. #37490
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    I heard on the radio that one trained armed guard, who is a police officer, or is supervised by the local cops, cost $80,000 per year, per guard. There are something like 100,000 public schools in the US. Wonder what existing programs will be cut to come up with those funds. The same people that are against gun control will raise heck if anyone mentions a tax hike to pay for all this.

  21. #37491
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    Yup Suja that is what I think too. Nobody wants to pay for it.

    I don't know, I just think living is risky. Always has been. But that is why it's also rewarding. I get it, I do. I have a lot of fear but just force myself to do things anyway and those things tend to be the most rewarding. I worry a lot about being in a car....has led me to panic attacks before. But I ride several times a year at least 4-5 hour trips and have in the past (since this started) done road trips to Philly and Disneyworld.

    Jennifer, 35, DH 36

  22. #37492

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    Well, there's a difference between doing something risky yourself and sending off your kids to do something risky, especially since it shouldn't be risky (like, going to school)

  23. #37493
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    But really everything is risky about living. There just isn't a way to ever be 100% safe. Taking a bath could be risky if you fall and hit your head. Getting in the car or on a bus is a risk. Could have an accident. Eating is a risk.....could get food poisoning.

    Things like this should not happen but not sure that there is a way to make it 100% certain and safe.

    Jennifer, 35, DH 36

  24. #37494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmosmom View Post
    But really everything is risky about living. There just isn't a way to ever be 100% safe. Taking a bath could be risky if you fall and hit your head. Getting in the car or on a bus is a risk. Could have an accident. Eating is a risk.....could get food poisoning.

    Things like this should not happen but not sure that there is a way to make it 100% certain and safe.
    I do agree with this. Of course we do everything we can to reasonably minimize risk, but anyone could be hit by a bus crossing the street or something equally sudden and unpredictable. Not everything is in our control.
    Me (40) DH (47) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

  25. #37495
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
    Ha! He was actually standing on the chair, not the table. Typo. I wouldn't have walked out of the room and left him standing on the table. Chair, yes.
    I assumed he was standing on the chair when you left and simply climbed on the table when you were out of the room.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
    Did y'all see the nra is calling for armed guards at every school? I can stand behind that as an immediate action.
    I'm with you Bridget. I was thinking utilizing the National Guard. They're already trained, and really this is a matter of national security in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suja View Post
    I heard about the NRA's press conference. Armed guards and armed teachers. That's ALL they called for, so they're unwilling to entertain any sort of gun control.
    Yeah, armed teachers? F'n craziness. Like they don't already have their hands full, or they'd be able to stop what they're doing and take an accurate shot with hysterical kids in the room. Puh-leaze. They're not-and shouldn't be-trained for that. And think about high school...what if the Dillon Kleobold and Eric Harris's of the school decide to take the teacher's gun from them and use it?

    Quote Originally Posted by girlwonder View Post
    Pure f-in' stupid. One person with a scope on a high powered rifle can take care of that easily - just like the DC sniper(s)? I didn't expect such a truly ridiculous, short-sighted (blind to reality) statement from the NRA. As a friend of mine said, "The NRA jumped the shark today." I'm not venturing into the other thread because my getting upset and mad will do nothing to help the situation, and I can't stand to see such stupidity and siege mentality. It's one of their own who does it every time, but they act as if THEY are the ones who are attacked. The NRA doesn't understand that the ground is shifting and they have to change or get buried.
    That's a good point about a sniper getting a single guard from a distance first But I still think having at least one guard in each building, at least for now, wouldn't be a bad idea. It's better than what we have now---nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwenn View Post
    I really think the answer lies at getting to the root of the problems. Which means never allowing anyone to get to such a state that they WANT to kill a bunch of innocent children (or anyone, but most especially innocent children). Whatever you are looking at, whether it is security or society or mental health or whatever, we all benefit from a more mentally stable population.

    An Early Intervention is part of it! My coworker and I intend to write a letter to our district administration discussing the five children we have seen this year that needed intervention for emotional/behavioral problems and weren't able to receive a service we offer because they weren't delayed in two areas. If they had an articulation delay, like saying "tat" instead of "cat" we could qualify them just for that - but anything else they have to have two areas and because they speak well, they don't qualify. Like having a child who plays violent video games all day and violently attacks their mother at age four is fine if it's the only problem. But heaven forbid they say "tat" instead of "cat" - get that child special ed preschool! This is a major problem and it really does start this soon. The problem is making people care, and even more so, willing to pay for getting them help. They people denying these kids services are just as much at risk of being shot by them 10-15 years from now as anyone else. You'd think they'd want to solve the problem.

    /end rant. Sorry.
    Mental health is definitely another piece of this puzzle. I almost fear, however, that anyone older than 10 might be too late to save. I dunno. We need to try. And we need the services to do it. I think we need more research into what is making these people like this. It's going to cost money, but it's worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmosmom View Post
    That is why I am torn. Of course I want protection for it to not happen again. But I don't know if that is the answer. It is so easy to do damage. What about recess and a sniper? Or field trips? Do I want to live in a society where we have armed guards all over? I have to admit that it creeped me out to fly after 911 and see armed guards walking about. Is that something we want kids to see in their schools? How well trained would they be? I mean we had recently trained officers shooting at someone in NYC and hit nine innocent bystanders. It makes one wonder how many kids would be accidently shot.
    That's why I say National Guard. They're here already. They're trained. They're already getting paid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
    The reason I can get behind armed gaurds at the door is not that I don't agree with everything that you ladies are saying. I do. 100%. I guess I'm being driven by the fear that this could happen again tomorrow. That fear is making me wan't something immediate.
    I'm absolutely with you on this Bridget. I get what you're saying. We can implement mental health services and gun control, but how many years will it be before we actually see the benefit of that? We need to do something to protect our kids right now. The genie is out of the bottle as far as semi-automatics. It will take decades before we really see a decline in them. Another part that is necessary is absolutely NONE of them should EVER be allowed to be sold privately. They should be forced to sell them through a broker that does background checks. Preferably, they'd all be taken away but I know that won't happen. I also think people should be made as responsible for those weapons as the government would be if someone stole weapons from a base and used them on civilians. You want that kind of gun? Be prepared to be charged with multiple counts of homicide if it gets stolen. They're not to be taken lightly and owning one should come with serious responsibility. Selling one outside of a broker and/or without the background checks should carry a long-term prison sentence as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suja View Post
    I heard on the radio that one trained armed guard, who is a police officer, or is supervised by the local cops, cost $80,000 per year, per guard. There are something like 100,000 public schools in the US. Wonder what existing programs will be cut to come up with those funds. The same people that are against gun control will raise heck if anyone mentions a tax hike to pay for all this.
    Taxpayers are going to have to pay. For decades they've cut mental health services and shut down state hospitals all over the country. We're paying dearly for it now. It's time to pony up the dough and get them back up and running. People are going to whine and b1tch but oh well. I want our kids safe. I want even the would-be shooters to overcome whatever it is that is making them like this and be productive members of society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmosmom View Post
    But really everything is risky about living. There just isn't a way to ever be 100% safe. Taking a bath could be risky if you fall and hit your head. Getting in the car or on a bus is a risk. Could have an accident. Eating is a risk.....could get food poisoning.

    Things like this should not happen but not sure that there is a way to make it 100% certain and safe.
    That doesn't mean we shouldn't do everything we can to minimize the risks. Other nations have done it. We're supposed to be the best...so let's be the best. In something besides highest rate of school shootings.

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  26. #37496
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    Chrissy, as a National Guard wife I just cannot get behind the idea of sending those guys into schools just because they are NG soldiers. The NG has some "elite" units with highly skilled marksmen with combat experience ... but the majority of NG soldiers have far less experience shooting combined with a tough-guy, trying to prove himself mentality. Those are the last people I would want shooting a gun into a room full of children.

    Someone like my DH ... Yeah, I'd trust him with my life. Or anyone's.
    Me (40) DH (47) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

  27. #37497
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    Well perhaps they'd better get them trained. Who else has the capability to train properly? The NRA said they've trained police, so maybe they could. I'd let them do it if that's the case (I'm not really sure because I don't pay a lot of attention to what they do except their bs lobbying crap). But having an armed anybody in each school isn't the solution...it's only a layer of protection for now. Until the real gun laws and mental health services have time to catch up and make a difference. I'd estimate we'd need to use them for 10 years...maybe longer. It's not an issue that's going to go away easy.

    It was just one idea. We cannot afford police, and armed security guards? Um, no.
    Last edited by missychrissy; 12-21-2012 at 10:20 PM.

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  28. #37498

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    I hope that as a nation we just do everything we can. To me saying an armed gaurd will do no good because they might just get shot is the same as saying more gun restrictions won't do any good because the shooter will find a way. Everything we do to make it harder for them, I am in favor of. However, I do hope people won't take just one small part of the solution as the entire answer. I have always thought that things have to get much worse before people will realize what a grave and ugly society we have become and I don't know how much worse it can get than a room full schoolchildren getting shot multiple times. But it seems like every solution that people throw out, their is a group saying, "No! That won't work!"
    We have to do it all.

    And yes, bad things happen every day. Life is risky. But I won't accept this sort of violence as an everyday life risk comparable to getting hit by a bus. I won't.

  29. #37499
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    The National Guard's budget has been cut to ribbons in the last several years. Training enough soldiers to cover all the elementary schools would require a major increase in military funding to cover increased training time, guns, ammo, etc. Somehow I can't see increased military spending going over well as a solution to this problem.

    Ammo is expensive and you would want anyone in this sort of situation to have an enormous amount of trigger time. That is the same argument against using police officers - they generally don't have all that much trigger time, leading to disasters such as someone discussed earlier in here, shooting and killing civilians while aiming for the criminals. DH spent weeks on end at the rifle range doing nothing but shoot before he deployed, as part of his training. Even with that, it is far less trigger time than he had in comparable situations when he was active duty Army.
    Me (40) DH (47) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

  30. #37500
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
    I hope that as a nation we just do everything we can. To me saying an armed gaurd will do no good because they might just get shot is the same as saying more gun restrictions won't do any good because the shooter will find a way. Everything we do to make it harder for them, I am in favor of. However, I do hope people won't take just one small part of the solution as the entire answer. I have always thought that things have to get much worse before people will realize what a grave and ugly society we have become and I don't know how much worse it can get than a room full schoolchildren getting shot multiple times. But it seems like every solution that people throw out, their is a group saying, "No! That won't work!"
    We have to do it all.

    And yes, bad things happen every day. Life is risky. But I won't accept this sort of violence as an everyday life risk comparable to getting hit by a bus. I won't.
    I agree with you Bridget. We need to do everything...and in multiple areas. I heard there was a game called Kindergarten Killers. I think eliminating those things is a good idea as well. And perhaps extensive psychiatric evaluations for anyone that designs or wants to play such games (if it is indeed what the blog writer portrayed it to be. I was too upset to research it). But I do think media plays a roll as well.

    We can look at what other developed nations have done and implement some of those same rules. Other countries had school shootings and were able to stop/significantly reduce them. To look at the whole problem and say, "It can't be done" is just giving up. I'm not prepared to give up. If others could do it, so can we. Not trying is not doing our kids any favors and it's keeping them in grave danger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwenn View Post
    The National Guard's budget has been cut to ribbons in the last several years. Training enough soldiers to cover all the elementary schools would require a major increase in military funding to cover increased training time, guns, ammo, etc. Somehow I can't see increased military spending going over well as a solution to this problem.

    Ammo is expensive and you would want anyone in this sort of situation to have an enormous amount of trigger time. That is the same argument against using police officers - they generally don't have all that much trigger time, leading to disasters such as someone discussed earlier in here, shooting and killing civilians while aiming for the criminals. DH spent weeks on end at the rifle range doing nothing but shoot before he deployed, as part of his training. Even with that, it is far less trigger time than he had in comparable situations when he was active duty Army.
    So we spend the money. It's going to cost money. People are going to have to deal with it. I'm of the mindset that something is better than nothing. What we have doesn't work.

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


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