Secular Confessions

[Gwenn]

Wow. I usually stay up on my crazy news, but I hadn't heard about this.

eta: and my mother first showed signs of her bipolar disorder when she was pregnant with my brother. I wonder how soon after infection something like that could develop? I'm not saying that I believe that that's what caused it, but there's a possibility. Or that it happened when she was pregnant with me. They say knowing is 1/2 the battle...

You can get toxoplasmosis from a cat anytime if you're in close proximity, pregnant or not. They say most people who've lived with a cat long term probably have been exposed at one time or another, but there is a risk of birth defects (deafness, for one) or miscarriage during pregnancy so they emphasize being careful if you're pregnant. In the past, they didn't think it was harmful if you weren't pregnant, but that is changing.

[missychrissy]

I'm also thinking about just making her my own homemade dog food. That's probably the best, cheapest option. Almost every dog I know irl does very well on it, even if they have sensitive skin.

While we're talking pets, I wonder what your thoughts are about feeding a parrot seed/pellets. I'd read up on Eclectus parrots for 3-4 years before we got Cramer, and there's a LOT out there about this specific breed having a longer than normal digestive tract, and as such they're better able to gather vitamins from the food they eat. So well, in fact, that some experts (Avian vets included) claim that they can overdose on Vitamin D and the like. They attribute some psychological disorders seen in these domesticated parrots to Vitamin/Mineral overdose. Those experts strongly recommend avoiding seeds altogether and giving less than 10%, if any, pellets of any kind to Eclectus parrots.

Cramer's vet wasn't pleased with his diet and even though all his blood work came back with really good levels in everything except calcium (which was only a little low, nothing to be concerned about), he was really pushing that we transition Cramer to a 60% seed/pellet diet. I'm sure he really believes in what he's saying, and he was fully aware of the controversy in that type of a diet, but his opinion is those birds had had 100% seed/pellet diets and it's not really something to be concerned about.

The trouble is, once Cramer starts toe tapping, wing flipping, and/or pulling his feathers out, changing his diet again can mitigate the worst of it but it never goes away. My feeling is that as long as his blood work is all within normal range and his kidney/liver function, etc is all within normal range...why mess with his diet?

I don't like to think I know everything there is to know about Eclectus parrots. There's always more to learn. But he isn't an Eclectus breed specific expert-smart as he is. He did say we could give him more cheese-which we will-because of his somewhat low calcium. I was surprised about that because he actually eats more cheese than I admitted to. I lied a bit because parrots aren't designed to digest cheese (why would they be, who would make it for them in a jungle?), but he truly loves the stuff. He's really happy to have more cheese in his dish.

Anyway, I do wonder if we should add some pellets at least. My experts claim pellets the lesser of the two evils (seeds & pellets) and do suggest giving them if you do have a parrot that's deficient in something. So they're not all bad. But then I go back to, if it's working, why change things?

[missychrissy]

You can get toxoplasmosis from a cat anytime if you're in close proximity, pregnant or not. They say most people who've lived with a cat long term probably have been exposed at one time or another, but there is a risk of birth defects (deafness, for one) or miscarriage during pregnancy so they emphasize being careful if you're pregnant. In the past, they didn't think it was harmful if you weren't pregnant, but that is changing.

That's really interesting to know. And i wish it were talked about more. People need to know this just so they can be aware.

[Gwenn]

I know nothing about birds, but I vote for if it's working, why change it? Sounds like there are issues with this specific breed that are different from other parrots.

[missychrissy]

I know nothing about birds, but I vote for if it's working, why change it? Sounds like there are issues with this specific breed that are different from other parrots.

That's exactly what I gathered from all the reading I did before we adopted him. And truthfully, I don't think I could have read up on him more if we were adopting a human from another country. I wanted to know everything. He was going to be my final baby and live (hopefully will live) 30-40 years.

[Gwenn]

That's really interesting to know. And i wish it were talked about more. People need to know this just so they can be aware.

Yeah, it should be talked about more. I was going to say this was a recent finding, but that page I linked to is dated from 2009 so the idea must have been out there for a while. I guess the article I read last week was regarding a follow-up study.

[missychrissy]

Yeah, it should be talked about more. I was going to say this was a recent finding, but that page I linked to is dated from 2009 so the idea must have been out there for a while. I guess the article I read last week was regarding a follow-up study.

Yeah, I noted the date & my first thought was...how can I not know this? I do read up on psychological and pregnancy related stuff all the time. And we've definitely discussed kitty litter hazards a lot on this board.

[missychrissy]

Yeah, it should be talked about more. I was going to say this was a recent finding, but that page I linked to is dated from 2009 so the idea must have been out there for a while. I guess the article I read last week was regarding a follow-up study.

More "proof" that our healthcare is 'the best in the world' (sarcasm)

Eighty-four percent of the North American infants studied had serious complications of the parasitic infection, including calcium deposits in the brain, water on the brain and eye disease that caused visual impairment or blindness. By contrast, few European infants had these problems -- for instance, about 17 percent of French infants with the infection develop complications.

A third explanation, and the possibility that worries Montoya, is that the difference is due to shortfalls in U.S. prenatal care. Pregnant women in Europe are screened regularly for new toxoplasma infections and treated to prevent transmission of the parasite to the fetus. But prenatal screening and treatment is rarely offered in the United States. Screening is needed because toxoplasmosis can occur even in pregnant women who carefully avoid known transmission methods. What's more, the infection can occur without any symptoms in the mother.

This is the stuff that gets me pissed the heck off at our sucky healthcare system.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1005172632.htm

[Gwenn]

Wow...I didn't even know they could screen!

[missychrissy]

Chrissy, look into any of the grain free foods. Evo, orijen, Blue Wilderness, barking at the moon, etc. None will be cheap, but they will be less expensive than the vet stuff.

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=grain_free

Suja, I'm looking at these & feeling very overwhelmed. I wish they offered free samples!!!

Not complaining...just venting out loud I don't really mind spending $ on her, and if it ends up being the $15/4 lbs is the best option, I'll stick with it. But I am a little concerned about buying something expensive that she cannot tolerate.

I will end up choosing at least 1 to try though. Somehow.

[missychrissy]

Wow...I didn't even know they could screen!

Isn't that infuriating? I guess if our babies are born with those issues, it was "God's will"

[3andMe]

I wasn't trying to say that eating cat litter was entirely harmless, just that the silica kind was less dangerous than some of the other kinds S. could be eating. He does just chew on the little bits that come out of the box, so not anything that is too contaminated. I do everything I can to keep him from eating the stuff. I sweep all the time, and keep the litter box in a closed closet, and then baby-gate off that entire room most of the time. Our cats are indoor only and are kept as healthy as possible.

Interestingly, I've lived around cats since I was little, including a bunch of semi-feral ones when we lived in El Paso, and I had a toxoplasmosis antibody test done after my first pregnancy. It was negative. Might account for why I am not very outgoing and friendly (toxoplasmosis apparently causes women to become more outgoing and friendly, and men to become more jealous and suspicious). Supposedly about 40% of the world population is infected.

There is a huge lag from paper to popular knowledge.

[missychrissy]

Interestingly, I've lived around cats since I was little, including a bunch of semi-feral ones when we lived in El Paso, and I had a toxoplasmosis antibody test done after my first pregnancy. It was negative. Might account for why I am not very outgoing and friendly (toxoplasmosis apparently causes women to become more outgoing and friendly, and men to become more jealous and suspicious). Supposedly about 40% of the world population is infected.

There is a huge lag from paper to popular knowledge.

Both can be lesser symptoms of bipolar disorder as well. Hmmm.....

[Bridget]

This taxoplasmosis conversation is SO interesting! I now I have one more things to add to my list of things to worry about. I caught Kai with cat poop in his mouth when he was a baby playing in a sandbox. I had his tested for worms but that was it. It wasn't easy to get that test. This was the pedi that told me to feed him more junk food with a laugh when I brought him in for lack of growth and had a food diary. When I requested the worm test, Kai was jumping on the little couch in the dr office and dr said, "Now that's not a boy with worms!" and only ordered the test for Savana. As if worms presents itself that way.

[Bridget]

Is there treatment for it if you have it?

[missychrissy]

at that dr Bridget! Oh my!!

[Gwenn]

I know what you meant about the litter, L. The clay stuff is nasty.

[missychrissy]

Suja, I'm looking at these & feeling very overwhelmed. I wish they offered free samples!!!

Not complaining...just venting out loud I don't really mind spending $ on her, and if it ends up being the $15/4 lbs is the best option, I'll stick with it. But I am a little concerned about buying something expensive that she cannot tolerate.

I will end up choosing at least 1 to try though. Somehow.

Maybe it won't be so hard to choose which to try first. Some don't have stores near me and one other was $30/4 lbs. I might spend more than $15 for 4 lbs if she LOVES the food and does well on it, but not twice as much. I suck.

[AbbeysMom]

I heard the report about toxoplasmosis as well. I grew up around all kinds of kitties (feral and indoor/tame) and tested negative when I was pregnant with Abbey too.

There are quite a few connections between specific bacterial infections and long term neurological disorders, which has made me wonder if the overuse of antibiotics and the increase in emotional disorders like anxiety and depression are related.

Nothing much going on here, still pregnant, no real signs of labor. Myles, I called you back! Call me when you get a chance.

[Cosmosmom]

Chrissy, I have my girls on Taste of the Wild. It's not sold at petsmart or petco though. I get mine at a local animal store. it's definitely cheaper than Orijen and EVO....it's actually on par with what we were paying for Eukenuba. I want to say something around $30-35 for the 30 lb bag. I have been pretty happy with it and the girls really like it.

[missychrissy]

Chrissy, I have my girls on Taste of the Wild. It's not sold at petsmart or petco though. I get mine at a local animal store. it's definitely cheaper than Orijen and EVO....it's actually on par with what we were paying for Eukenuba. I want to say something around $30-35 for the 30 lb bag. I have been pretty happy with it and the girls really like it.

I was just looking at that one. There are a few stores relatively close to me that sell it too. About 12 miles or so. Not too bad, considering where I live. My county doesn't have anything as far as stores go.

[Cosmosmom]

Yeah I was looking at EVO for a while but decided against that one because the calories were higher per cup. Cosmo is needing to lose some weight so I went with taste of the wild instead. Plus it was for all life stages so I could have my puppy and Cosmo on the same thing.....trying to feed them different foods was a nightmare. Now I just put it in the dish and they take turns eating it. We have been doing the wetlands one with duck and turkey and quail. I would be willing to drive a bit for it....a 30 lb bag seems to last 6-8 weeks for both dogs. Cosmo is just over 30 lbs and Molly is probably lower 20's. They get 2.5 to 2.75 cups a day total for both of them...split over the day. Missy is probably about in their size range so a bag that size would probably last almost twice as long.

[Cosmosmom]

Oh and we definitely noticed smaller firmer poos on Taste of the Wild. Especially in the puppy as she doesn't get people food. Cosmo does get some as it's the only way to get her seizure meds in her. Before we had Cosmo on science diets weight loss version and the poor girl was always going potty and it soft, smelly and huge....TMI but it sucked picking that up out of the litter box. And she didn't even lose any weight on it.

[Suja]

TOTW is a good food. BUT, it's manufactured by Diamond, and I've finally stopped buying any foods that are either theirs, or manufactured in their facilities. There have just been too many recalls on Diamond products and those manufactured in their facilities, and given that I have old dogs, I'm unwilling to take any chances.

http://diamondpetrecall.com/

I was feeding the Costco brand no grain food (manufactured by Diamond and part of the recall) and Solid Gold Wolfking (manufactured in their facilities and not part of the recall). I am not feeding either anymore. Now, the dogs eat Fromm.

Chrissy, find a good, mom and pop type pet supply store. Most will carry sample packs, and/or be willing to take back bags of food your dog won't eat.

[Cosmosmom]

Yeah I had thought about switching with the diamond recall. But the girls are doing well on it and like it so I decided to stick with it. If it continues to happen, I might think about switching but I hate to do a lot switching. I mean they recall a lot of human foods too.....yet I still buy bagged salads. I did give up on sprouts though!

Fromm was one I thought about too but don't remember why we didn't go with it. I know one thing I was also looking for in dog food was something with a smaller kibble....Cosmo is picky and likes smaller bites.

[Ky'sMom]

I have the most unexciting new ever and that is that I cleaned my refridgerator and it is sparkly shiny clean. I pulled everything out and scrubbed the hell out of it. It was bubbly in there. Everytime I open it I feel very happy about how clean it is.

Erin, you use a bleach solution to clean, so do you make your own? What sort of spray bottle do you use? It is like the bleach erodes the spray mechanism? Or maybe I am making my solution too strong? I have found the best luck with buying store bought bleach sprays, using them up, and then re-using the bottle. It lasts longer but not forever. I'd rather not buy the store bought.

I love a clean refrigerator! Unfortunately every time I clean it (I usually do once a month) someone spills something sticky and yucky almost immediately in there. Last time it was molasses. Before that it was some sort of gravy concoction that DH wanted to save.

I use one part bleach to 10 parts water. I just have a cheapo plastic sprayer I got from the dollar store for $1. I have been using the same one for over 2 years now. It is clear and has lines on it for measuring. I think I got it at Dollar Tree, the store where everything is a dollar.

We used to make our dog's food too but for us it was not cheaper than an expensive brand that they eat right now. We buy our dog food from the feed store that is right outside of the city. It is a very high protein brand, for sporting dogs, I don't know the brand name of it though. I'll look at it when I feed them tomorrow. Feed stores have everything cheaper. They even sell flea stuff that vets sale since none of that stuff actually needs an Rx. They also sell antibiotics and eye drops and other sorts of stuff that vets sale. They even have protein only food and it is usually cheaper than pet stores. You should probably look on yellowpages.com and see if they have a seed and feed near you and call or go by there to see what they have. We love our feed store and also like to support them because they are a local business. It is always fascinating for me to walk around the store because they have so much interesting stuff from chickens to leather boots to dog houses and plants to rabbits for eating!

ETA: I looked at the dog's food and it is Blue, the one Mandy recommended. It is pretty expensive, but is less expensive at the feed store than at Pet Smart and at various vets that are in our area. I think it is $10 less than Pet Smart at the feed store, that's what DH said, I believe. We get two bags of it a month for our dogs.

Does your dog have grain allergies Chrissy? That may be why she doesn't do well on certain foods. One of my aunts also had a dog who was allergic to chicken. Most dog foods have some sort of chicken product in them, even Blue. An She had to make her dogs food from beef, rice, carrots, peas, and other things and also had to give him daily vitamins.

Erin

[Cosmosmom]

What is in the food from the vet Chrissy? I would try to replicate whatever proteins they have in there.

[Suja]

Forgot to mention. Wellness Core is an easy to find no-grain food. You may want to consider ordering online; you can usually find coupons to offset the cost of shipping. That might allow you to get a better price on the foods.

[missychrissy]

Does your dog have grain allergies Chrissy? That may be why she doesn't do well on certain foods. One of my aunts also had a dog who was allergic to chicken. Most dog foods have some sort of chicken product in them, even Blue. An She had to make her dogs food from beef, rice, carrots, peas, and other things and also had to give him daily vitamins.

Erin

I'm not exactly sure what her allergies are.

Forgot to mention. Wellness Core is an easy to find no-grain food. You may want to consider ordering online; you can usually find coupons to offset the cost of shipping. That might allow you to get a better price on the foods.

Thanks. I'll look into that.

Jennifer, I didn't mean to delete you-I had selected you for multi-quote. That was a good idea about looking at the ingredients of what she was eating from the vet. The only issue would be that she didn't eat it as fervently as she does the stuff that makes her itch. I'd like to find something she likes that doesn't make her itch, but perhaps another brand using similar ingredients would have a different flavor?

[Suja]

If she is on a prescription allergy diet like z/d or z/d ultra, looking at ingredients might not do any good. Those foods are prepared in such a way that the potential allergens are broken down into teeny tiny pieces, and therefore unlikely to provoke a response. The ingredients could be anything, including stuff she is allergic to.