Secular Confessions

[Krystal5]

Sorry all about my little blow up earlier... What was that we were saying about we all get angry, it's all in the actions we take when we are?? I just needed to vent, I was home alone when it started, with no one to whine to! So thanks for listening.

Mandy, oh wow, I would be so mad!! The wrong meds, that is so dangerous... But, I am glad to know that they worked for you, even starting on CD 4, since that is now my BEST case scenario for this... Sorry the cycle was a bust. I fully expect this one to be for me, too. The last 6 have been, what's one more??? What are you doing now, if you don't mind my asking? Are you trying, or taking a break?

Gretchen, so glad she's fine! I remember doing similar when I was her age... Good memories! It's great you are letting her do that, sorry she gave you a heart attack. I'm not sure how my parents handled it- we didn't have cell phones when I went!

...man, now I feel old... Next thing I'll be saying I walked to school, up hill, in the snow, both ways! And it doesn't even snow here!

Chrissy, what happened??? How'd she disappear for 24 hours? How terrifying!

Bridget, yes, you should be very proud of her! How wonderful that she is able to recognize her feelings and what they are making her want to do. That is the first step! I had very similar feelings towards my younger brother, too bad I wasn't as mature as Savana!

[Gwenn]

Janet, they weren't even fertility meds. The pharmacist confused clomiphene with clonazepam, which is an anti-seizure drug. I actually took one, too, and freaked out. I did start clomid the next day, and as I said, I ovulated just fine.

I've been taking a break both to let my thyroid regulate and to get more in the mood for STC again. DH and I talked about just doing Letrozole and trying on our own next cycle, now that I had my levels checked and they were where they should be. I'm not sure if it will work, but who knows. Today ended up CD1 for me too, so we may be trying Letrozole on CD4 together! I'll keep you posted.

But no IUI for me this cycle.

[missychrissy]

Oh yes, I do tell her it's ok to be angry absolutely. It's all in how we handle that anger. And she knows that I have had my times where my anger has made me yell at them and I am very quick to apolgize to my kids for that and tell them how i am going to handle it better next time. I will also say right out that I have to walk away for a few minutes because I am feeling angry. Unfortunately they usually follow me, very dramatically apolgizing. Goofs.
Kai is such a trip. Lately he has been asking me how a loafer can make money. I don't even know where he heard that word! Anyway, I told him if a loafer is one who lays around and does nothing that it would be very hard to make money. He tells me he's going to figure out a way. Then with Savana telling me that she is not going to have a job like normal people. That she is going to live in the woods and live off the land and take care of the forest creatures. I asked dbf for all my endeavors of inspiring them to greatness, it sure sounds like my son is aspiring to be a drug dealer and my daughter is aspiring to be homeless! Ha!

Somehow, I doubt it! But too funny!

And as for the other, I 'knew' you had talked to her about everyone being angry...my post was meant more in a conversational, commiserating way. Not in a "make sure you tell her..." because I assumed you have all along. Sorry if it appeared otherwise.

Sorry all about my little blow up earlier... What was that we were saying about we all get angry, it's all in the actions we take when we are?? I just needed to vent, I was home alone when it started, with no one to whine to! So thanks for listening.

Mandy, oh wow, I would be so mad!! The wrong meds, that is so dangerous... But, I am glad to know that they worked for you, even starting on CD 4, since that is now my BEST case scenario for this... Sorry the cycle was a bust. I fully expect this one to be for me, too. The last 6 have been, what's one more??? What are you doing now, if you don't mind my asking? Are you trying, or taking a break?

Gretchen, so glad she's fine! I remember doing similar when I was her age... Good memories! It's great you are letting her do that, sorry she gave you a heart attack. I'm not sure how my parents handled it- we didn't have cell phones when I went!

...man, now I feel old... Next thing I'll be saying I walked to school, up hill, in the snow, both ways! And it doesn't even snow here!

Chrissy, what happened??? How'd she disappear for 24 hours? How terrifying!

Bridget, yes, you should be very proud of her! How wonderful that she is able to recognize her feelings and what they are making her want to do. That is the first step! I had very similar feelings towards my younger brother, too bad I wasn't as mature as Savana!

Please, don't apologize! This is what we're here for. I think we've all came in and vented and it truly is a safe place to do so. It feels wonderful too just knowing you'll have empathy, if nothing else. Often, you get wonderful advice about things too. I may be biased, but I think this is the best group ever for just that sort of thing.

As for what happened with Jesi, she decided she wasn't happy and just ran away. It came without any warning signs so we were not only shocked, but absolutely convinced she'd been abducted. She's very good (still) at burying and hiding her emotions. She had been unhappy for a while, but we didn't see any signs of it. She was a 'good' kid. Did her chores, homework, was polite...and then she was gone. Easily the worst night of my entire life. I cannot tell that story without giving a shout of commendation to the Ithaca City Police. She was only missing for 2 hours when we went to make the report and they took it seriously. They didn't give us any bs about her needing to be gone 24 hours. They worked all night and had a good idea of who she was with...or at least, who knew where she was and was lying to them. They hounded him, showed up a few times unexpectedly at his apartment throughout the night. Finally, early the next morning the lead Investigator flat out told him that since he was 19 and she was a minor, if anything happened to her he would be held responsible for it. Within 2 hours she was calling to turn herself in. When she arrived at the station, the first thing the investigator asked her was if she'd eaten and if she was hungry. He bought her Wendys and was very, very kind to her. He was amazing, really.

She went through a difficult period after that...admitted to me one day that she'd been smoking pot daily for a few months. It took her two attempts at alcohol & drug classes, but she did finally kick that habit. I still applaud her for coming to me and admitting she was doing that. I could have yelled-I wanted to, but I also wanted her to always feel free to come to me when she was in trouble and I kept my temper in check and thought, "ok, what do I do to help her?" I called the office where i used to work at mental health and they got her right in.

She's given me more than 1/2 my gray hairs. I love that girl though. She's amazing. And all that happened over a year ago now. She's still leaning towards joining the National Guard but I think she's having 2nd thoughts. She keeps stuff to herself, so I'm not sure what's up with that but when she's ready she'll talk to me about it.

[AmeriBrit]

I'm catching up a bit before dh and I set off for our child-free night. Kate, I just remembered that I have a pair of black sweat pants that are maternity ones that I still wear for working out; they have a low waist. I love those things. Lol.

Gretchen, that's great that your dd managed the public transport. That's a skill I acquired in my mid-twenties in order to avoid driving and trying to find somewhere to park in the Downtown part of Leeds! I still prefer driving, though. I sometimes smile to myself when I think about all the things I've done in my life, having started out as a little hillbilly girl.

Bridget, that made me laugh about the drug dealer and homeless jobs. I remember in high school there was always this one boy who sat through the career orientation class that we had to take who was adamant that he was going to find a way to beat the system and make money without having to work. I do think that is very mature of S to be aware of her anger. I keep telling Trav over and over that he is in control of himself.

Dh and I are going to have a relaxing day in Manchester. We're staying in a hotel that has a nightclub on the top foor, a Jacuzzi and pool, and even a Taco Bell that is close to it, so we are going to have a fun day/night. Then we have all this week off to enjoy with the kids. It's going to be a great week!

[Bridget]

Have fun, Ash!

Coming in here to vent is a perfectly acceptable way to deal with anger! Works for me all the time.

And Chrissy, I didn't take it as unwanted advice at all. It's great advice. In the past I have had to remind myself not to try and tell her that what she's upset about is no big deal because it's a big deal to her for sure and who am I to say?

[Cosmosmom]

Yeah I think we probably want to pinch people at times. Learning to deal with anger in an acceptable way is a hard thing. Janet I definitely can empathize. I only did three cycles of clomid (my IF is unexplained but I do tend towards a short LP and they were thinking clomid should help. it didn't). I was so stressed those three months and so up and down that I decided enough of that BS. And I work in the hospital so it was pretty easy for me to sneak away and walk to the other side for an appt. And it still was just too much for me. My insurance doesn't cover IF so we pretty quickly decided that we were not going to do IVF and a little less quickly we decided not to try an IUI but instead save the money for an adoption. Which has it's own set of BS but so far has been easier for me to handle. Right after we finished the home study and became officially a waiting family, I got a puppy and Molly has really kept us busy and made the first year of waiting go by quickly.

[missychrissy]

I'm catching up a bit before dh and I set off for our child-free night. Kate, I just remembered that I have a pair of black sweat pants that are maternity ones that I still wear for working out; they have a low waist. I love those things. Lol.

Gretchen, that's great that your dd managed the public transport. That's a skill I acquired in my mid-twenties in order to avoid driving and trying to find somewhere to park in the Downtown part of Leeds! I still prefer driving, though. I sometimes smile to myself when I think about all the things I've done in my life, having started out as a little hillbilly girl.

Bridget, that made me laugh about the drug dealer and homeless jobs. I remember in high school there was always this one boy who sat through the career orientation class that we had to take who was adamant that he was going to find a way to beat the system and make money without having to work. I do think that is very mature of S to be aware of her anger. I keep telling Trav over and over that he is in control of himself.

Dh and I are going to have a relaxing day in Manchester. We're staying in a hotel that has a nightclub on the top foor, a Jacuzzi and pool, and even a Taco Bell that is close to it, so we are going to have a fun day/night. Then we have all this week off to enjoy with the kids. It's going to be a great week!

Sounds fun!!

I was in my 30's before I used public transportation...in fact, it was when I was hired at Cornell. I couldn't imagine learning it in a foreign country.

Have fun, Ash!

Coming in here to vent is a perfectly acceptable way to deal with anger! Works for me all the time.

And Chrissy, I didn't take it as unwanted advice at all. It's great advice. In the past I have had to remind myself not to try and tell her that what she's upset about is no big deal because it's a big deal to her for sure and who am I to say?

That's the tricky part. I think with kids it can be easy to be dismissive of their feelings, but they feel what they feel. It's not up to us or anyone else to decide what warrants intense emotions.

I had a crappy dream and woke up feeling melancholy. I was a stupid dream about something that could never, and would never happen. I hope this crappy feeling leaves me soon. I hate dreams like that. Is it still considered a nightmare if nothing scary happens, but you just feel really bad in it?

[daylilies]

That's something I've been trying to work on too, like when Josh is upset about something that really isn't a big deal, I try not to tell him that, because he obviously feels that it is a big deal. Yes Bridget, I think that is sometimes even worse than something scary actually happening in a nightmare. I've had dreams that sound absolutely harmless when I try to explain them but just the feeling I had in the dream was terrifying.

[Bridget]

One day it just occured to me how awful it felt when dbf would act like something that was upsetting to me was silly. I mean, there were times when I would literally say to Savana, "Big deal, Hon." because she'd be a puddle over her sock on wrong or over Kai touching her bedroom door knob without washing his hands after eating. But I learned that these things are reall stressors to her and that by blowing her off, I was telling her that her feelings were wrong and how crushing that was to her. I think it's hard enough to be ultra sensitive wiyhout having the people around you treat you like you are ridiculous.

Sorry about that dream, Chrissy. I cannot remember the last time I remembered a dream!

[missychrissy]

That's something I've been trying to work on too, like when Josh is upset about something that really isn't a big deal, I try not to tell him that, because he obviously feels that it is a big deal. Yes Bridget, I think that is sometimes even worse than something scary actually happening in a nightmare. I've had dreams that sound absolutely harmless when I try to explain them but just the feeling I had in the dream was terrifying.

That's kinda how this one was...it was heartbreaking and even 30 minutes after I woke up I still felt like I wanted to cry. Hard. And nothing in the dream was as bad as all that. Craziness.

[Bridget]

Aw, that is no fun, Chrissy. May I ask you ladies for some opinions?Savana is a hoarder. She saves everything and her room is tiny. She tries to keep it organized but her way of doing that is by moving each project to the perimeter of her room and it just slowly encloses in on her. She is now very good about cleaning otherwise. If we are cleaning the toy room, or the living room I get no arguments and she works hard. But her room. About once a month I go in and gather up about a crate of stuff and put it in the laundry room for later appraisal. I try not to take things I see her using often. I am talking beads, parts of other toys, blocks, papers, bottlecaps, sticks, rocks, rocks, rocks, jewels, gems and beads, rubber bands, toothpicks, paper paper paper. Ok, so I pack about half her things up and oganize the room. A lot of the crate gets reorganized into the household like all the books and universal toys she's been hoarding. The rest, unless she requests a specific item, goes away after a month or so. I can tell when her room is getting too cluttered because it totally changes her behavior. She gets more ocd and anxious. She won't go in there to escape overstimulation. I do tell her I am going to do this and why. I ask her to help me and she usually declines and honestly it is better when she does because if she is with me it's too hard for me make changes, she won't throw anything away, gets totally agitated and wears my patience. If thinks of something I've packed away that she needs I will get it for her but normally I don't even leave the box for her to see. Later she tells me that she hasn't even noticed so many of the things missing that she thought she needed. I am glad she is realizing this and also we've discussed the state of her room and how feels to be organized and how it feels to be cluttered.Dbf asked me, )and not like a jerk at all but sincerely which was cool), if we're (meaning me) handling it right. Am I doing the right thing or should she be helping me clean the room? Are we enabling the behavior? He feels she is not learning to be organized, that she can just continue to hoard and I will take care of it for her. I wonder the same but usually tell myself that eventually she will realize that it's not as painful as she thinks to let go of inanimate objects and she'll be able to do it herself. Handling it this way has completely eliminated the drag out, meltdown, emotional freaking explosion that would happen every time we told Savana it was time to clean her room. And also, she does "clean her room" about once a week. It's just that her cleaning is just pretty much moving all that clutter into the bins on her shelves and up off the floor and sweeping. Which I think is a good effort.I know I overthink everything but this seems like an important thing for Savana to grasp, for her well being.ETA: Wow, this post was kind of rambling mess to begin with. The fact that it all turned into one paragraph is just brutal! Sorry! lol

[missychrissy]

Honestly, I think you're handling it right. You don't want to put her through trauma every time she has to clean her room. As she gets older, or those symptoms change, I'm sure you'll migrate to another way of dealing with it. For now, it's working and I don't see any reason to change it. Just because you do it this way now, and maybe for the next 5 years, doesn't mean it's going to result in you having to go to her house when she's at work (or in the woods ) and clean behind her back. You'll figure it out.

[3andMe]

Quick phone post- I'm on a date. What are the secular bay area mamas doing tomorrow? I'm off and the 3 kids are out of school and nobody's sick. Willing to travel, go to museums or outdoors, and I have memberships and guest passes for some venues.

[daylilies]

We have the same problem with Josh. Really the only thing he plays with a lot these days are his Legos and some of the pretend play stuff (dress up things) but he says he will eventually play with the other things and doesn't want to throw them away. He wants to keep every paper he brings home from school, everything he draws or makes at home. I haven't had the heart to go through and get rid of anything yet but I may have to do it soon.

[girlwonder]

I think you are handling it just fine - maybe she could help you with the box that you have deciding what goes where in the house, so she can get used to the idea of sorting and judging without deciding what to get rid of. JoJo hates getting rid of anything - she saves every single thing she gets.

[Krystal5]

I'm on my phone now, but will try to respond more later... We'd love to join you, L, whatever you do! I was just wondering what we should do...

[pepperlru]

Oh, I'd love to, but I'm on deadline with my work this weekend. I'll be working at home tomorrow. Bummer!

[pepperlru]

Bridget, I think you're handling it well and in a sensitive way for Savana. I is a hoarder too, always has been, and it's been a challenge sometimes to help her let go of things. Really, when she was young, she couldn't do it at all -- she had a hard time even throwing away trash. So I did something very similar to what you do. It was helpful for her. She still has some trouble forcing herself to get rid of stuff, and sometimes she will ask me to help her by going in her room when she's not there (or when she is, sometimes) and putting things in a box. We have the box in the garage - we call it the in-between box - and every few months, if she hasn't asked for anything in the box, it goes to goodwill and we start again. She is getting a little better at choosing things to weed out for herself, now, but she's still not totally there. I hope she is by the time she moves out on her own, but I don't know. It's a tough thing for her to do.

By the way, I didn't get the chance to respond before, but I think her coming to you to confess her struggle with her emotions is super mature!!! A really great step, something that a lot of kids don't learn til much older. I think sometimes when young kids struggle a lot with strong emotions, they eventually become very adept at handling them in a way other children don't get the practice in. DD1 was a very intense child, and we often say that she is exceptionally mature and sensible now because she really had to learn how to deal with that stuff when she was young. When lots of her friends were hitting puberty, getting emotional and falling apart, she was dealing really well. I think the same will be true for Savana. It's wonderful that she can recognize and name her emotions, and is cognizant of what she needs to do to handle them.

[Cosmosmom]

Hmmm, I don't know Bridget. I mean it sounds like a reasonable way to handle things. But I do think that if it was my child having those kinds of issues, I would at least talk myself to a professional and maybe even the child depending on what the professional says. I don't have any experience with OCD and hoarding except the little I have read while working and it seems like that is really all part of the same thing. It can grow quite serious and I think it is one of those things where the earlier treatment is started, the better so that it doesn't become severe. It really does sound like what you have been doing has helped and you are super sensitive to her needs.....but I think that I would still want a professional with experience in OCD/hoarding to confirm what I was doing was right or give suggestions as to how to help even more. I admit to being biased though....I saw a professional in college a handful of times, really it was like 5-6 weeks worth or something like that, because I was having panic attacks. almost 15 years later and I still utilize the techniques she suggested for me that I didn't think to try that really changed my life.

[Suja]

Bridget, I think that you are handling it right. But, I would figure out a way to shift the responsibility to her, slooooowly. She really does need to learn to deal with it (the clutter and the underlying issues), and IMO, for her to be a functional adult, she needs to have coping skills to deal with those tendencies. I agree with Jennifer that seeking advice from a professional so you can develop a long- term strategy is a good idea.

My primary reason for saying this is because I have seen similar behavior in my ex SIL's daughter. Over time, it has only gotten worse, her room is a complete disaster area (and unsanitary), and SIL seems to have kind of given up. She is in high school now, so certainly old enough to be able (physically anyway) to deal with it.

[Suja]

I fell asleep at 5 PM, woke up at 9:30 to put Mira to bed, fell back asleep in the process, woke up at 11:45, fed the cat, cleaned, changed, and gave Khan his meds, and wide awake now, at 2:00 AM. Will be exhausted again tomorrow.

I'm pretty sure I played with Mira in between there when DH was on the phone, and went to put out the trash, but that could've been a dream.

[missychrissy]

For those of you that listen to country music, did you see Mindy McCready commit suicide? She left two kids, a 6 year old and a 10 month old.

[Bridget]

So freaking sad. Was her boyfriend that killed himself the father of those kids? Those poor, poor children. A tortured soul she must have been to end it all.

[missychrissy]

He was the father of the youngest one. I think her mother still has custody of her older son. She's been a mess for years, so this isn't altogether surprising. But incredibly sad for her kids and family.

[Suja]

I don't know who she was, but that's so sad. Poor kids! I wonder if she had undiagnosed/untreated PPD.

It's probably a function of sleeping on the couch yesterday, but my back is a mess. It makes for interesting good times since I have to help Khan get around, which is not exactly great for the back.

[missychrissy]

She battled drug & alcohol addictions and apparently some sort of mental illness. I'm sure having a 10-month-old exacerbated it. Some news articles are indicating her boyfriend's own suicide last month has been reopened and is being investigated. I'm wondering if she didn't shoot him herself last month and when the police were closing in decided to end her own life. She's kidnapped her oldest boy from her mother (last year, I believe) and a previous boyfriend had beat and choked her bad enough he was charged with attempted murder...but then only served 30 days. This isn't altogether surprising about her, but no matter what it's just awful for her kids.

[3andMe]

I don't know who that is, either, but it sounds like a tragedy from start to finish, and it's not finished yet with the children.

MacksMom posted in Random a couple of html programming tips about how to make paragraphs, and putting the word 'break' in between the < symbol and the other one on the other side will help form paragraphs. It's a PITA, but it's making me feel much better about it. It actually just creates a new line, so I have to do two of them, one right after another. However, if I'm doing multiple paragraphs in one post, I can copy-paste. Unfortunately, and I'm not going to take the chance and look at it to see, if you go back and try to edit, it will remove all of the paragraphs.

Pepperlru (I know your real name, but don't know if you don't like it used - just realized this week that Myles didn't like her real name being used online), so glad that I. made her way home safely. I would have been concerned too, especially with the lack of response by phone.

I was hiking with R. the other day, and having a very nice bonding day with him 1:1 but at one point he just took off running down a very steep and rocky trail, and disappeared beyond some hills. I ran after him, as fast as I could go, trying to leap over rocks and not twist my ankles or slip on the sand, and kept yelling at him to slow down and I figured he was okay but was getting more and more annoyed. Today I'm meeting Krystal5 and Maiya at a fairly safe area and I think I'm going to let R. lose me if he really wants to. He'll have his wrist band with my phone number in it. He should not get into any trouble. I would like him to disappear for once long enough for him to get scared more than I do.

Bridget, I'm not really sure what to tell you about Savana. In the past, whenever I offered an opinion, I remember AbbeysMom would often reply after me and say that wasn't a good idea if Savana really had OCD. So I think it is probably different if Savana is just 'quirky' or if she has these tendencies often enough and strong enough to be clinically diagnosed. I do know that C. used to be better about giving stuff up, but has been trying to cling to stuff, including things we obviously don't need to save. I mean, I was trying to toss old underwear and socks that had holes or were well-outgrown, and she wanted to save them for "the children I might have someday." I showed her that they were completely unwearable and couldn't even be donated to friends or shelters, and she still wanted to save them. I had to set them on a shelf in my closet to take out to the storage area, and then after a while I just tossed them. I have to sneak out piles of the prolific artwork, but I also save and recycle some. With my kids, I often take out some things and ask them "Which of these things would you be willing to give up to some other children, or recycle, or put out in the yard, or donate so we can have room for other things?" They do surprise me occasionally.

[AmeriBrit]

That is sad to hear about Mindy Mc, Chrissy. I remember her singing "Strawberry wine" back when I was a young'n. I can't believe how many famous rich folk go off the deep end likethat.

We're back from our child-free night. We had a really great time, and I now feel refreshed to be able to give my best to the kids. They didn't seem to miss us at all! Travis was even upset that we were back. He shouted, "Why have you come back already?" as soon as we walked through the door. Gee thanks, kid! I didn't sleep well at all at the hotel. The bed was comfy enough but I just tossed and turned the whole night. I'm sure I'll be early to bed tonight.

Bridget, I wish I had some good advice about the hoarding, but I think your approach sounds like it is working.

[pepperlru]

Chrissy, I just realized a response I made to you about Jesi never went through. Just wanted to say that my heart goes out to you for how terrified you must have been when she disappeared. I can't even imagine. I'm really glad that when she came back, she was able to open up to you so you could help her feel better. Poor kid. The teenage years are just brutal sometimes.

L, I don't mind if my name is used online (for those of you who don't know, it's Gretchen) but Pepper is my nickname, so you can use that if you like. The only thing I try to do online is to not use I's whole name -- at least, not often, sometimes I forget -- just because she's old enough now that I feel like she deserves some privacy. It can sometimes be confusing to just use the first letter, though, since it's I -- so occasionally I just say DD1. Or something else. I don't know, I'm just feeling my way along. I didn't realize that about Myles -- thanks for cluing me in! Anyone else? I never quite know with real names. I don't want to offend either way.
Good luck with the outing today with R!

[missychrissy]

Strawberry Wine was actually performed by Deanna Carter. Mindy did "Guys Do It All The Time" (may not actually be the title) and "Ten Thousand Angels" They're the only 2 I know.