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Thread: Secular Confessions

  1. #37861
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    Yes. Today many of the parents held a news conference. They started Sandy Hook Promise. http://www.sandyhookpromise.org/ It's all over the news...CNN and the national evening news and such.

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  2. #37862

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    Terrible news about your brother's dog, Suja. Sorry to hear it.

  3. #37863
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    Total subject change, but I read this today and it has hit me as really profound. On some level I am we'll aware of it but I think it explains a lot of the issues I am having with my parents at the moment.

    Involuntary childlessness is an interruption of the family life cycle. Family building is a developmental stage that represents generativity or fostering the next generation. It is a life cycle stage in which each and every member of the family transitions from one developmental stage to another, and in the process assumes new roles and new role responsibilities: couples move from being spouses to parents; their parents become grandparents; their siblings become aunts or uncles; nieces and nephews become cousins, and so on. Infertility is the obstacle blocking these normal transitions and preventing family members from assuming new developmental roles.
    Me (39) DH (46) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

  4. #37864

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    Ahh, I guess I've just been avoiding the news too well, Chrissy. I really never watch it or visit news sites recently, which I guess can be good or bad because I'm out of the loop but I'm also missing all that disturbing stuff.

    Mandy, that is really interesting, but what does that say about voluntary childlessness? It seems to insinuate that people who choose not to have children are depriving their family members of that developmental stage. Not to mention that only children will never be aunts or uncles by blood (something I've always been a bit sad to miss out on--I'll have to wait for my SIL to have children and even then it won't be the same)

  5. #37865
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    I don't know. The article was focusing on infertility of course, and I know people who have happily chosen to live without children as a life choice. Really I don't know the specifics of how it affected their families, for example. I can imagine it would be hard for a mother or MIL to accept that they won't be a grandparent. Not a good enough reason for a couple to have kids if they didn't want to but I would imagine their families would be affected.

    DH and I were talking about Kate Middleton being pregnant and how it kind of came with her job description. I can't really picture her husband marrying anyone who was determined not to have kids. It's kind of part of the deal. Kind off topic, but it makes sense on a tangent!

    I think the reason I was caring about the article was not so much about cousins and uncles, But just the idea that despite how hard I may try, I can't shake this place of being the youngest child of a rather overprotective mother. Without grandkids, I keep getting the brunt of it. If I had chosen childlessness we could hash it out I guess bit since it's not a choice I have made - it's been thrust on me - it's just another complication/frustration/indignity of this whole situation despite my wanting change. Again, when the situation is a choice you can rationalize and defend to your parents but when it's not a choice it's totally different.
    Me (39) DH (46) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

  6. #37866

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    Absolutely it's different. That is profound and I can see how it relates to your struggle with your parents.

  7. #37867
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    It shouldn't be different. In that, I don't think your parents or anyone should put any additional pressure on you about it.

    My own kids are all young yet, but they've each emphatically said they don't want to have children. Ever. I'd be ok with that. And my brother never had kids and likely never will. I've never felt any sort of limitation or loss relating to that. Maybe our family is unique, but I just can't see how one couple's child status should impact the extended family members.

    If I do find myself feeling 'blue' about not having grandkids, I'll be sure to get my butt into therapy.

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  8. #37868

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    Ash, your story about dh having the tea and scone the next day is classic. The rest of the story would have driven me crazy.

    Suja sorry about your brother's dog. I'm happy to hear Khan is doing better.

    Chrissy, the closest I have come is liking the page on fb. The entire story just rips my heart out. Today when I took G to school, we were a little late, the doors were locked. It made me feel a little better. But of course it doesn't keep the "bad guys" out, if they really want in, they are going to get in.

    This week is spirit week at school, it was 80's day today, G is dressed as Bruce Springsteen ;) Of course I had to show him youtube videos of Born in the USA. He was singing it all day yesterday. Sadly, he has inherited mine and dh total lack of singing ability.

    Mandy, I can only imagine the pain of infertility
    Shelley-mom to DS, 6

  9. #37869
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    Suja I'm sorry for your brother. But also glad that Khan is making a some improvement. He's a beautiful dog.

    Mandy I can totally relate to that. Chrissy, I think that your family must be unique or just doesn't feel it being that there are kids in the family. It's not that family puts pressure on us to have kids....maybe at first a little but they also knew we wanted a family. I'm the oldest and my DH is an only child. If he doesn't have kids, his mom never gets to be a grandma to a human....we call her grandma to the dogs. She has said if we never had a baby that is ok because above all she wants us happy. But she also really really really wants to be a grandma. Which sucks when you want the same thing and it's not happening.
    It's a bit easier with my parents because they are close to my cousins and are more like grandparents to them than aunt and uncle.

    A family isn't a stand alone unit and the addition or lack of addition of new members does affect the others...at least those that you are close to.

    Jennifer, 35, DH 36

  10. #37870
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    My parents were very angst-y about my not having kids. Same with my ILs, although they have plenty of other grandkids. For my parents, it eased a bit when my brother had his, and then I changed my mind on it as well. I can only imagine how difficult this must be for you, Jennifer and Mandy. I do think though that you need to talk to your mom, Mandy, because she is being hurtful, and might not even realize it.

    Shelley, we need pictures of BRUUUUUCE! Better still, a video of him singing.

  11. #37871

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    and hugs to Jennifer as well, didn't mean to leave you out.

    I will definitely post some pics later. When I video on my Canon camera it is very halted. It's hard to watch. It's really annoying. It's one of the reason we bought the camera. Could be user error though...
    Shelley-mom to DS, 6

  12. #37872

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    guess what I am doing this weekend. Some may call it crazy. Some may call it bat**** crazy. We are going camping at a 1840 "town". Some friends and their kids and the three of us are all going camping in this settlement for the weekend. We all have to dress in period clothes, there will be a thousand people going, they have "stores" and live music. G is ready to jump out of his skin, he is so excited because his little friend is going. He gets to play in the dirt, climb trees, and drink sarsaparilla just like a real life kid in 1840. But with less chores. Way less. I figure I can stand anything for 2 days, right. No, we'll have fun with it. Our friends are fun to be around. I gave us some good ole names. Dh is Jedediah, I am Cora Mae, and G is Amos.
    Shelley-mom to DS, 6

  13. #37873
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    Quote Originally Posted by raspberry View Post
    guess what I am doing this weekend. Some may call it crazy. Some may call it bat**** crazy. We are going camping at a 1840 "town". Some friends and their kids and the three of us are all going camping in this settlement for the weekend. We all have to dress in period clothes, there will be a thousand people going, they have "stores" and live music. G is ready to jump out of his skin, he is so excited because his little friend is going. He gets to play in the dirt, climb trees, and drink sarsaparilla just like a real life kid in 1840. But with less chores. Way less. I figure I can stand anything for 2 days, right. No, we'll have fun with it. Our friends are fun to be around. I gave us some good ole names. Dh is Jedediah, I am Cora Mae, and G is Amos.
    Oh I think that sounds like FUN!!!!!!

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  14. #37874
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    Quote Originally Posted by raspberry View Post
    guess what I am doing this weekend. Some may call it crazy. Some may call it bat**** crazy. We are going camping at a 1840 "town". Some friends and their kids and the three of us are all going camping in this settlement for the weekend. We all have to dress in period clothes, there will be a thousand people going, they have "stores" and live music. G is ready to jump out of his skin, he is so excited because his little friend is going. He gets to play in the dirt, climb trees, and drink sarsaparilla just like a real life kid in 1840. But with less chores. Way less. I figure I can stand anything for 2 days, right. No, we'll have fun with it. Our friends are fun to be around. I gave us some good ole names. Dh is Jedediah, I am Cora Mae, and G is Amos.
    That sounds interesting and fun, as long as the weather cooperates. Does this mean there will be no electricity, running water, that sort of thing too?

    My parents left this morning. Well, actually, their flight was supposed to take off at 10:10, but still has not. Mira went to bed late last night, then woke up by herself this morning to go to the airport with them. She's going to be so exhausted by the time nap time rolls around. She is really going to miss my mom. Yesterday, she was talking about how she was going to get on the plane and go by herself.
    Last edited by Suja; 01-15-2013 at 10:21 AM.

  15. #37875
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    Out where we used to live in Candor, there is a neighboring forest that had a lean-to and outhouse overlooking a gorge. It was free to hike to and camp there...it was first come, first serve though and no way to reserve the space ahead of time. I always wanted to do it. It was beautiful out there.

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  16. #37876

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    Well it's central Florida so the weather should be nice. In the high 70's, maybe 60 or so at night. Oh yeah, no electricity at all. They are hardcore about the rules too.
    Shelley-mom to DS, 6

  17. #37877
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    I wanna live in Florida

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  18. #37878

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    It is beautiful, my town really is especially. C'mon down and visit Chrissy!
    Shelley-mom to DS, 6

  19. #37879
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    Quote Originally Posted by raspberry View Post
    It is beautiful, my town really is especially. C'mon down and visit Chrissy!
    Some day....*sigh* I'd probably not want to return. Especially if it were wintertime.

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  20. #37880
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    Quote Originally Posted by raspberry View Post
    It is beautiful, my town really is especially. C'mon down and visit Chrissy!
    Whereabouts are you, Shelley? I have family in Jacksonville.

  21. #37881

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwenn View Post
    I think the reason I was caring about the article was not so much about cousins and uncles, But just the idea that despite how hard I may try, I can't shake this place of being the youngest child of a rather overprotective mother. Without grandkids, I keep getting the brunt of it. If I had chosen childlessness we could hash it out I guess bit since it's not a choice I have made - it's been thrust on me - it's just another complication/frustration/indignity of this whole situation despite my wanting change. Again, when the situation is a choice you can rationalize and defend to your parents but when it's not a choice it's totally different.
    *Hugs*, Mandy. This is exactly the type of situation that the Serenity Prayer was written for: "grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change/The courage to change the things I can..." I can't imagine how difficult it must be for you to want so badly to have a child, and be frustrated with your efforts. Isn't there a difference, though, between a biological imperative to have child, and a societal one? I do think from a biological standpoint there's something very deep-seated & hard-wired in most women to make us want to become mothers - and even grandmothers, and that contributes a great amount to the heartbreak of infertility in a family. Society's rules don't have to be inflexible, though. We are culture-creating animals, and by now, we really should know that infertility is a likely-enough condition that affects a percentage of every population. In knowing that, we should be able to adapt ourselves to that reality. That's why I think you're doing yourself a disservice if you're opting into the roles prescribed by that passage you quoted, right down to letting your mother behave overprotectively towards you. You are strong. You are independent. You are highly intelligent. You have a capacity to be happy that is independent of whether or not you have a child. And you have the right to demand to be treated as such by your family.

    If you feel like someone is shoehorning you into a role you don't want to play, I think it's correctable by you to an extent. You can train her to not be so overprotective. My mother, for example, is timid and overprotective. PERIOD. Regardless of whether or not she's a grandma. And I've had to assert my independence with her a number of times by a) just going out and doing the things she's tried to over-protect me from - sometimes not even telling her about them until I've done them; b) not cow-towing to her need for reassurance and instead, talking like she needs to manage her own anxieties, making her take ownership of her own worries about me; c) not assuming a deferential tone in conversation with her. I used to have to be the epitome of Asian respect towards my parents. I still speak respectfully to them as I would to anyone else, but one day, I just started talking to them like I actually knew stuff I could teach them. And slowly over time, they started treating me more like a peer than their child; and finally d) just shrugging off the times she tries to get naggy/lecturey with me. I guess what I'm saying is that you kind of have to give people permission to treat you in a way you don't want to be treated. If you know - like down to your core - that you're not helpless, you will not allow yourself to be defined by your struggles to have a child, and that you won't let your circumstances ruin your happiness, then the person your mother treats you like just won't ring true. Her behavior towards you will take on a more "rubbery" feel, and it won't stick to you or hurt you as much.

    By the way, I don't think you're being oversensitive, because you have a right to feel every feeling you have. I just hope that I could offer some ways of thinking about your situation in an empowering way, to lessen the hurt you feel. I've been around you long enough to believe you can soldier through anything life throws at you, and hope you see yourself as resilient as I see you.

  22. #37882

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suja View Post
    Whereabouts are you, Shelley? I have family in Jacksonville.
    My friends have a bar in Jax called "Dos Gatos". Have either of you guys ever been?

  23. #37883

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    I am in south Florida, Jax is north Florida. We drive through Jax, but are never there long enough to stop at a bar ;)
    Shelley-mom to DS, 6

  24. #37884

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    Excellent advice, Myles, for all adults in dealing with overbearing/overprotective/overstepping parents. I learned those techniques the hard way, and they really work. Not necessarily to change the parents, because one can't change others, only one's self. But it is possible for one person in a relationship to change the dynamic, which is what those techniques shoot for. I'm glad you posted. Wish you could post it to the main board, as there are a LOT of ladies there who could benefit from implementing!
    D-Mama (37) D-Dada (43) and D-Baby (11/02/2011)


  25. #37885
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    The more I read on apa-both here and elsewhere-the more I'm convinced that is one thing my parents did right. Even though I was 16 when I moved out on my own, once I was on my own my parents only offered advice if I specifically asked for it. For most things in my adult life, they leave me to make my own decisions and are supportive in anything/everything I do.

    I hope I can be that for my own kids. I think I can and already do with Bobbie. I really have no expectations of them except that they 1) don't break the law, 2) they're nice people, and 3) they find their own happiness. In their own way. (not necessarily in that order either. )

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  26. #37886
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    It's hard, it's just in everyone's nature to do that I think. I already know that I am not like that. I have to try hard to not tell my sister what to do. And I'm currently trying to tell my MIL what to do. LOL
    My mom is pretty bad about that too but I'm pretty good at just doing whatever I want anyway. and I live 5 hours away.
    We have had a lot of these conversations lately, especially with MIL as think about her maybe moving in with us if they can ever figure out what to do with the house in IL and she can retire (husband wants a divorce...they haven't been together in two years but the house is still some underwater and they are just kind of stuck. she is just turning 62 soon and is hoping to ride it out down there long as she can since she has a decent job there).
    Anyway one of DH's worries was his mom trying to decorate in the house. I'm like dude seriously? I have NO problem telling his mom no and saying that is just not my taste if we are shopping together. Her response to him was that he better not try to decorate her space downstairs. But really she has said over and over that he's the man of the house and our rules go and she does NOT want to get up in our business. She says over and over, our house, our dogs, our kid, our rules and she will respect them even if she thinks they are stupid.

    My sister got engaged over the weekend. But she said they are going to take some time as they get financial and job stuff in order. I have never been a bridesmaid before but guess at this point I would probably be matron of honor. Now our state just needs to jump into the 21st century and make it legal already.

    Jennifer, 35, DH 36

  27. #37887
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmosmom View Post
    It's hard, it's just in everyone's nature to do that I think. I already know that I am not like that. I have to try hard to not tell my sister what to do. And I'm currently trying to tell my MIL what to do. LOL
    I think maybe that's it on a fundamental level. I don't even think about what other people should do. I mean, yeah, if I see a 5 month old drinking a bottle of kool aide, I do think "Those parents shouldn't do that" but when my friends have a situation going on, what I always want to do know what they want to do. And I try to be supportive of that in any way I can. Even if it's something I personally wouldn't chose for myself, I always understand they're not me. They have different desires and experiences and preferences.

    I don't recall my parents discussing anyone outside the house with that "Well, I think she should _____" attitude. Rich's family is like that and I remember being shocked at it. Especially the frequency in which they discussed what everyone around them should be doing.

    My father was very vocal (as opposed to my mother) about this with me when I was a teen. When I was an adolescent and didn't understand why my BFF did x,y,z he'd always tell me not to worry about them, just worry about me. I could only control me and if what they were doing impacted me in a negative way, it was up to me to decide if it was worth the trouble or not. He never even suggested that anyone was too much trouble to be involved with (and that, I admit, I have said to my kids on occasion about a couple girls that I thought were troublemakers and drama queens).

    My parents really lived the "live and let live" philosophy themselves. They didn't judge others that I recall. They certainly never vocalized their opinions about what anyone else should do. It's funny how I never really thought about all this till now.

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  28. #37888
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    Shelley, that sounds like an amazing weekend; I've love to do something like that. I'm looking forward to camping trips when the boys get a little bit older. I think I could definitely live in Florida. It's somewhere in the USA that DH would probably enjoy living as well. He's been there, but I have not! His whole family went when he was 17 and stayed in a villa and did the whole Disney World thing. My whole idea of Florida is based on the Golden Girls, I have to admit! Maybe one day we secular ladies could be the Golden Girls? LOL

    The Ford garage fixed my car for $400; it was a coil and a spark plug that needed replacing. I'm sure they ripped us off for that price, but DH insists that we take the cars there so that on the books when we sell the cars on, we can say that they have only ever been serviced by official Ford garages. I'm just glad it wasn't something major. Now I am thinking about getting a new car. My car is an '04 model. I like the look of the Hyundai Qashqai and the Ford Kuga. My dream car is still a VW Bug, but I think I'll have to wait til the boys are out of booster seats for me to ever think of realistically getting one of those.

    Today at school, a parent came in in the morning and asked to speak to me. They let me know that their child had not done their homework because they couldn't understand it and they (the parent) didn't know how to do it either. I thought it was very brave of them to admit that and I felt a little sad that they couldn't understand it. It was 10 questions of very basic algebra like: 5 + x = 6; what is x? I think I would be horrified if I couldn't help my 5th grader with their work, but you never know with the things they learn these days! Speaking of learning, Travis is doing extremely well with his reading and got moved up a level at school. They do color bands here, starting with pink, then red, then yellow, then blue and then green. They are expected to be on green by the time they leave kinder, and Trav is well on his way to being there. As someone who loves to read and who spent most of her childhood living out daydreams in books, I am so thrilled! Oh, and as well, Cash watches when Travis is sounding out words, and he has been mimicing the sound, and it's so cute. He'll pick up a book and go, "Buh, eh, tuh."

    And my last random thing for this post-I have been taking vitamin D, and I can really tell a difference! Thank you to all of you who recommended that!

  29. #37889

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    Myles, what you said made a lot of sense. There are times when I've dreaded telling my mother what I'm up to because she's judgemental. I didn't tell my mom I was going on the cruise again until a few days before I was leaving. That didn't make it any easier-I probably would have waited until I got back, like you do. Chrissy, my mother is like that, the type of person who says "She should do this". It kind of shocks me too. Like, I couldn't care less if my cousin who just got married is still visiting her parents every day but you'd think it's a personal attack on my mother, the way she talks about it and looks down on it. Like what the heck? Who cares? I just say "Oh well..." and try to let it go but it's like she wants me to agree with her.

    That reenactment place sounds like fun Shelley! There is something like that around here that some of my church friends do but I have never been to. I'm not sure if Josh would appreciate it. He likes his electronics LOL

    Ash, I'm glad the kids are doing well.

  30. #37890
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    Quote Originally Posted by daylilies View Post
    Myles, what you said made a lot of sense. There are times when I've dreaded telling my mother what I'm up to because she's judgemental. I didn't tell my mom I was going on the cruise again until a few days before I was leaving. That didn't make it any easier-I probably would have waited until I got back, like you do. Chrissy, my mother is like that, the type of person who says "She should do this". It kind of shocks me too. Like, I couldn't care less if my cousin who just got married is still visiting her parents every day but you'd think it's a personal attack on my mother, the way she talks about it and looks down on it. Like what the heck? Who cares? I just say "Oh well..." and try to let it go but it's like she wants me to agree with her.
    That's exactly how Rich's family is! They hated me because I wouldn't participate in their gossip and I didn't care one bit what they thought about me.

    I'm feeling so enlightened and positive about this, I really think I'm going to bring it up to my parents the next time I see them. I don't think it's anything they put thought into...that's just how they are. I can't say it's how they were raised exactly because my paternal grandmother has a slight tendency to be judgmental of others and has been on occasion vocal about what she thought people ought to be doing...but I remember my grandfather always telling her certain things weren't her business and my dad would only chuckle and say, "that's just how mom is."

    Maybe we're just lazy. I think it takes energy to figure out what someone else should be doing with their life. I must prefer to focus on myself. Seriously though, no matter what my friends have going on in their life, if they want to do something I try to be supportive of them in it. If it turns out it was a mistake, I do remind them that it was worth a try and/or that they made the best decision that they could at the time with the knowledge they had. Life is too short for regrets...and I really don't think any of us can tell others how to live their life. It's up to them to find what makes them happy. We shouldn't have to live to please others, and we cannot expect others to live to please us.

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


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