Secular Confessions

[missychrissy]

Dana, so sorry about the ear and the illness. I've heard elsewhere that that is the worst pain in the world.

Good luck Ash! I do hope you get accepted!!

Bridget, maybe some people are just making conversation. But it's also possible that many are taking it as a personal attack about their own choices. It happens all the time.

Work exploded on me again today. I had 1 good day. I'm so tense I have a pain in the top center of my back, just under my spine. I cannot continue on here. No more has been said since I sent the training link for SCCM to my boss. I think the nearly $2,000 made her change her mind.

[Gwenn]

Other than a litter box, which is gross, cats are way, way less work than dogs. I adore dogs as you know, but they want to be with you all the time and to do things with them all the time. Cats can just chill for a while, although they like to play and snuggle too. They are much less needy. And a kitten is nowhere near as destructive as a puppy! Cats don't need to be walked, ours are indoor only so no need to be let in or out, and will generally entertain themselves until I come up to them to play. And no need to house train/potty train. They just do it. Unless they spray, in which case there may not be any training them out of it. Get a female, especially your first time. And their jaws aren't big enough to do major chewing damage, although they will scratch furniture. Then again, I may be biased since vampire kitty still doesn't come out of the bedroom.

[daylilies]

My husband is one of those people who assumes homeschooled kids are not socialized. He thinks they sit at home all day by themselves with their parents and are totally sheltered and antisocial, but I know there are homeschooling groups and other ways to get kids involved with other kids.

I was thinking about piano lessons for Josh but haven't done them yet. I'm glad I didn't because after I taught him a little (I still remember the basics) he kind of lost interest. He likes to make up his own rules and didn't want to put his fingers on the right keys and things like that. I still let him play around on it of course, but I don't think he's ready for formal lessons. Good luck with the teacher!

[Gwenn]

There are people out there (I have met them) who do home school specifically so their children will not be socialized - think the extreme conservative types who make the girls wear long dresses and never cut their hair. I had an encounter with a family like that and the daughter kept looking at me like I was some exotic creature in a zoo! And she was in her early 20s. I also know people whose kids have major social problems who keep their kids out of school so they won't have the problems of dealing with other people. It always makes me think of the joke about they guy who said, "Doctor, it hurts when I do this!" and the doctor says, "Don't do this!" I don't think it's good to avoid reality. That said, it is obvious that is not the case in your decision to homeschool and I am stunned your family is questioning you, Bridget. You are giving your kids a better education than the public school system has, and you tried it twice. Trying and finding something better is a good thing, not a bad thing.

[missychrissy]

I knew I was forgetting something--the cat question! The worst thing about them is the litter box. Tigger's has to be 'shoveled' out every day. I hate it. But I love him more than I hate it so I deal. Other than that, they are very independent and far less needy than a dog.

There are people out there (I have met them) who do home school specifically so their children will not be socialized - think the extreme conservative types who make the girls wear long dresses and never cut their hair. I had an encounter with a family like that and the daughter kept looking at me like I was some exotic creature in a zoo! And she was in her early 20s. I also know people whose kids have major social problems who keep their kids out of school so they won't have the problems of dealing with other people. It always makes me think of the joke about they guy who said, "Doctor, it hurts when I do this!" and the doctor says, "Don't do this!" I don't think it's good to avoid reality. That said, it is obvious that is not the case in your decision to homeschool and I am stunned your family is questioning you, Bridget. You are giving your kids a better education than the public school system has, and you tried it twice. Trying and finding something better is a good thing, not a bad thing.

My first bf was from a family that was very like that. Not to the extent that all the girls had to wear long dresses, but they were expected to get married and be house wives. They could work certain jobs while living at home (and contribute 100% of their paycheck to their mother, er household), but once married it was expected that they'd stay at home and have lots of babies. My bf was the youngest of 8. We got in trouble because we were cuddling on the couch. It was ridiculous. My first 'dispute' with them was when I mentioned I'd like to go to college (I was late 14, early 15). His mother was pissed. She said I was far too independent for her son and no daughter in law of hers was going to work outside the home and not be there to raise her grandbabies. And of course, said grandbabies would be raised her way. Looking back, I'm surprised I lasted 2 years with them.

Now, he's an alcoholic who still lives with his mother. Never married and perhaps the father of an illegitimate child that was born into one of those welfare mom homes where there are 5 kids with 5 dads. He's the only one that doesn't have a daddy to go spend weekends with. I dodged a bullet on that one.

[Gwenn]

Man, Chrissy, you really did! I just can NOT picture you with in laws like that!

[missychrissy]

Man, Chrissy, you really did! I just can NOT picture you with in laws like that!

When I say I was a different person back then, I truly was. I think "me" was always in there somewhere, but she was well hidden. I actually tried very hard to fit the mold his mother expected of me. It hurt my feelings when I overheard her talking to a neighbor and she called me a "floozy." I was young then, of course, but I also had zero self confidence. This was pre-suicide attempt. Actually, it was her forcing me and her son to break up at 16 that triggered my suicide attempt. It was the whole "he's the only person I have in this world and I lost him" thing that is actually scarily common for teenage girls. :/ I just took the most drastic action. And failed. Thankfully.

I was so meek back then. Who knows who I'd be if I hadn't connected with him. Or if things had worked out. Maybe we would have been married and had kids and I'd be a sahm. Or, maybe I would have been raising his children alone without him being in their life at all. I know he was a good guy back then...well, to be fair he still is. I'm not sure if that child is his. I'm sure he has no idea. I do think he could have pushed to find out, but he's not like that. He didn't talk back to his mom or try to defend me or our relationship at all. He's not a fighter.

Anywho--it is what it is. Despite the hell I went through, I do still hold that family very close to my heart. We also had great memories and I genuinely loved them. For me, love never dies. It might change, but it doesn't go away. They're different and I'm glad I didn't end up with them, but they certainly aren't 100% evil. As much as they sound it

[Ky'sMom]

I know some whackadoodle homeschoolers, mostly the uber religious type who teach nothing but the Bible they also do the long dresses and long hair, girls can never cut it and boys have to wear certain things. I also know some whackadoodle afrocentric homeschoolers who teach their kids that Africans did everything in the world. And FWIW, I do think African history and culture is interesting and relevant but I just don't see the need to make every subject based on Africa or Egypt or whatever. I know a couple moms who homeschool and teach their kids afrocentric stuff or biblical stuff only. The main gripe I have with it is they don't teach much math lol. The kids are pretty socialized so socialization is not a big deal with them, I just think the kids aren't getting a good all around education due to the biases of their parents.

You Bridget are not that way, so I don't see why anyone would have a problem with you homeschooling, like Mandy said, you did try it and twice at that. I really don't see why your brother would question you. Is it the older or younger? I would think whichever one would know you are a great mom and wouldn't jeopardize your children's education just because.

Ky did take private guitar lessons for 3 months last year. They weren't solely individual. He had 2 other students in his class. He practiced everyday, even though he protested and he ended up not liking the guitar because it was "too hard." Ky doesn't like to do things that are difficult so I knew from the beginning that he would do the "too hard" thing. I made a deal with him that he would have to do the whole 3 months of lessons as it was a specific term held at our local performing arts center. They run free classes every so often and we had been trying to get a paying guitar class for a while but not enough people signed up for it so I was happy when they finally offered a free one.

I think it depends on your kids whether or not they enjoy it. It also depends on what type of lessons you are looking for. Your kids are rather young and in regards to regular lessons, the type I had as like Jen I also played an instrument (trumpet first) for many years from 8 to 18 years old. I was in 3rd grade when I started trumpet. We had a really great teacher who made it fun but he did make sure that outside of class we had to practice at least 4 times per week. I was involved in a great music program at Bowling Green State University in Ohio where I got private trumpet lessons and piano lessons along with voice lessons from 12 through 18 years old. During those years I practiced every day for at least 2 hours per day outside of playing in the marching, jazz, and concert bands at school.

Ky was not ready for the practice. I only had him practice 20 minutes per day but he would whine about it and he was 9 years old at the time. DH wants him to start playing again and I may insist that he does play an instrument as I think it is just good to have some sort of musical ability. DH also played the trumpet in the famous Grambling State University marching band, an HBCU in Louisiana. They were on a Tampax commercial years ago and I remember he was so upset for his band being associated with feminine hygiene products lol!

Erin

[Gwenn]

Lol! Erin, I love that your DH (or his band) was on a tampax commercial! It adds a whole new dimension to him!

Chrissy, I am so glad you are here to tell the tale. I had a male best friend who was Mormon. If it had been up to me, we would have dated but his mother hated me and ended up making him cut off all contact between us. Sounds similar in a way. He was such a sweetie but again, never stood up to her. He is married now with four kids and a truly devoted dad. Not what I would ever want these days but you sometimes do wonder how life would have been different.

[Suja]

Bridget, I think that what has been mentioned above is the sort of picture most people have of homeschoolers. I have only known a couple myself, and these people were just not knowledgeable enough to teach kids at all. They could barely put together a coherent thought, and I have wondered just what it is they were teaching the kids.

Adding the cat is perhaps the easiest thing I've ever done. Generally, I'm a big fan of adopting adult animals, and Finn has moved in like he has always lived here. The amount of work involved is oh, about five minutes a day - I scoop twice a day and feed canned food and change water twice a day. That's pretty much it. And he is an awesome, cuddly cat who gets along with everyone, and loves people. And is fastidious, and so far, has only scratched "approved" things.

[beanpop]

Has this thread been affected by the lack of people frequenting APA these days? I only ask because I could never keep up before and that was when I was checking APA multiple times a day

Suja, I was thinking about you a lot lately and how much I appreciate you I wanted to come tell you so here I am!

[missychrissy]

Has this thread been affected by the lack of people frequenting APA these days? I only ask because I could never keep up before and that was when I was checking APA multiple times a day

Suja, I was thinking about you a lot lately and how much I appreciate you I wanted to come tell you so here I am!

It's been slow the last few days but we have our moments. How are you?

[Cosmosmom]

I think it always tends to get slower around holidays as people are traveling and just busy with that can be involved in holidays.

Interesting hearing about the past relationships. So different from my experience as I only dated a few guys before DH and none lasted longer than six weeks. Met him when I was 19 and by the 3rd date, we were officially a couple and haven't ever had a breakup or even talked about it in the 14.5 years we've been together.

OMG my library is off the lobby and there is also a coffee shop there. And they just baked some cookies that smell fantastic. That is just plain mean of them.

[daylilies]

Erin, you must find that tampon commercial on youtube or something. I need to hear this. LOL

I think things are just slowing down here-perhaps it's because we're not having an influx of new members, and old members are moving on and their kids are getting older so they're not on here asking a million pregnancy/baby questions. Not that I ever did that. ha ha...

I just got back from one of my dreaded dr. appts. It was just a CT scan but they had to give me an IV for non-contrast dye. They had to stick me 4 times before getting it right. The first girl tried 3 times and the second one got it on the first try. Not really an experience I was ready to welcome back into my life.

Suja, I'm glad you're enjoying the cat. They are generally very low maintenance. I barely know mine are here (although that might have something to do with Bo.) However one of the cats is practically besties with Bo. He puts his nose a little too far up her butt when sniffing her and can get a reaction out of that, but otherwise they are good together. Even the other one pokes around downstairs sometimes now.

[Cosmosmom]

In the 90 minutes I was at my sisters house, I don't know how many times the cat got into trouble. She was constantly telling him (and moving him) from the frig, the counters, behind things, stopping him from pushing on things to make them fall.
Her dog, she says go to your bed and he goes and lies down in his bed.

Her cat is super friendly and she has had him about a month so that could be some of it. But he seemed like way more work than her dog....she adopted him in July and he's 4 yrs old or so. So he came with some training and maturity.

[Suja]

Has this thread been affected by the lack of people frequenting APA these days? I only ask because I could never keep up before and that was when I was checking APA multiple times a day

Suja, I was thinking about you a lot lately and how much I appreciate you I wanted to come tell you so here I am!

LOL! Anything to keep our little secular world going! I'm glad you were able to stop by; it's been a long time. I haven't had as much time as I'd like to tell you just how adorable little Maddy is. She's such a beautiful girl, and OMG, the smile!

[demigraf]

Lol! Erin, I love that your DH (or his band) was on a tampax commercial! It adds a whole new dimension to him!

^^^ Totally this.

My post today isn't the lengthy one you all deserve. I've been on the busy side lately...surprisingly not with work, although that is soon to pick up. Just lots of little projects and activities going on, and now of course it's the holidays. Last week I wasn't thinking about them. Then Black Friday rolls around (how I loathe thee!) and suddenly I'm panicking that I'm behind on all of the preparations. Now how does that work? I do have to share that I had a terrible dream last night. We were on some ship and DH had left Bodhi to use the potty on his own. When I went to go get him, I realized he was really far. I had to cross a walkway over green water and climb a really steep concrete staircase with no rail to get to him. Like, each stair was only 6 inches deep, so my heels hung off each step. As I was climbing the stairs, his smiling, trusting little head popped up over the top. I motioned for him to come down "toesies first" and reached out my hand. For some reason, he swung over with his legs not onto the staircase, but dangling over the big drop off to the side of them. And he thought I was going to catch him, so he let go. I didn't even connect with his hand after he dropped. Just watched him fall, and fall and fall. I woke up before he hit the bottom, but it was an absolutely horrible, horrible dream. I'm still upset about it. I was in his bed when I woke up because I've been sleeping with him pretty much ever since I started working out of the house again, and I had to just hold him really tight. Awful, evil dream.

Suja, I've had similar experiences with people were dead-set on homeschooling. This is absolutely no reflection on you, Bridget, or the decision to homeschool in general. It just seems the handful of them I've met have been dangerously ignorant. It wasn't just the horrible grammar, bad hygiene and dreadful social skills of their own, but also a lack of evidence of having mastered the fundamentals themselves, no curiosity about the world, no reasoning ability and some mean/stupid prejudices to boot. I felt really sorry for their kids. These were the kind of people you wanted to get their kids away from so they'd get exposure to others who were not so ignorant. Anyway, I think people can be attracted to homeschooling for noble reasons, and others out of fear and bigotry, and the latter group can give homeschoolers in general a bad name.

I wish I weren't allergic to cats. I'd make a great cat lady, I think.

[missychrissy]

Oh Myles what a horrible, horrible dream. It bothered me a great deal that you had to experience a nightmare like that. How frightening.

Work was worse than normal...and normal is pretty f'n bad. I really don't think I can hang out here. I actually snapped at a coworker today and went marching to my cube shouting, "FINE! I'LL DO IT!" I don't get like that at work. Ever.

[daylilies]

So sorry Myles about your dream, and sorry your work is so bad Chrissy

[Gwenn]

Chrissy. Sounds like work is really unpleasant right now. And Myles, what a horrible dream! Someone told me once that it's common to dream you are falling but you don't ever dream of hitting the ground. I wonder if your mind won't let you dream of your child hitting the ground? It would be too much for your mind to deal with...

Sorry for the morbid topic. I wonder if there is any truth to that statement anyway? Just something my brother said when we were kids. And that's a whole different topic that I won't go into!

[daylilies]

I dreamed that Josh had drowned, once, although when we got him out of the water we were able to resuscitate him.

[Ky'sMom]

That is a horrible dream Myles! Unfortunately it reminded me of a terrible dream I had that Ky had died a couple months ago. I was actually really on edge for a while and woke up in a panic and went to check on him. Around that time a child had been killed in their sleep from a stray bullet and I drank some milk that night for some reason, milk gives me horrible dreams if I drink it at night and I usually don't drink it at all since I am becoming somewhat intolerant of dairy, and I dreamed the same thing happened to Ky and in the dream I was getting ready in the morning and hollering up the stairs to ask him if he was up like I usually do and he didn't respond so I kept hollering his name and asked him why he wasn't answering me and he had better be up or we would be late and I went up and looked into his room and he was bloody, then I screamed, and I literally felt a panic go through my whole body and when I woke up I gasped and had REALLY palpitating heartbeats and couldn't calm down. I had to go check on him and Elle and even pulled his covers off and woke him up because it frazzled me so much. It was horrible. I've never had a dream where one of my kids was hurt let alone killed and I still feel the feeling it caused when I think about it. DH didn't want to hear about it and told me to stop dreaming stuff like that and to make sure I don't drink milk before bed!

And in regards to the Tampon commercial, it aired I believe in 97 a year after DH left the band but he was just upset that they made a commercial for Tampax lol. He still thinks people remember them for that even though they were in a coca cola commercial as well. He knew some of the people in the commercial. It basically was one of those older commercials where the proclaimed "Tampax was there." I am no good at putting actual videos in but here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RO3_9NBalE

Erin

[missychrissy]

And in regards to the Tampon commercial, it aired I believe in 97 a year after DH left the band but he was just upset that they made a commercial for Tampax lol. He still thinks people remember them for that even though they were in a coca cola commercial as well. He knew some of the people in the commercial. It basically was one of those older commercials where the proclaimed "Tampax was there." I am no good at putting actual videos in but here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RO3_9NBalE

Erin

omg that's too funny! What a trip! Your dh cracks me up about the things he 'worries' about!

I can't even discuss the nightmares I've had about my kids being harmed. They're far too upsetting to me. I'm getting emotional just reading everyone else's.

[daylilies]

OH Erin, I do remember those commercials! Thanks for the link!

[Gwenn]

Love the commercial!

[Ky'sMom]

Have a question for you ladies, especially Jen since you have some experience with this that I know about.

I got an email from the dean of graduate studies at Notre Dame in IN asking me to apply to their program a few times. I thought they were just automatically generated since I took my GRE but the lady called me even and left a message and told me that they would waive my application fee if I applied and they would send me a code to waive it so I decided to look into them.

I actually already had looked into them but they are a Catholic college. Jen, I remember you said you went to a Catholic university. They also have a reputation for being REALLY religious, like they have chapels in every dorm on campus, last statistics I read said their student body and faculty are 85% Catholic, and it is a huge Catholic university so I didn't give them much attention due to this since the area I want to focus on actually is about atheism being a liberating force in literature. My personal statement actually involves my own personal story of realizing....I'll say the inconsistencies with religion and how it related to issues I was going through as a child. I think I told you ladies I read the whole bible when I was 10 years old and actually reading it put me on the course of being an atheist because I found it rather unbelievable. I do a small rendition of my revelation in my statement of purpose, the essay you have to submit to graduate school, because it directly relates to my interests in literary research.

Notre Dame does say that they "do not discriminate base on......" including religion, so I had ruled them out to applying. But the dean who called me said they offer up to $35K in financial support per year, with the average being about $30K, which is WAY more than what other top universities offer in regards to yearly living expenses. Notre Dame has a large endowment, which I was aware of, but I wonder if it would be hypocritical of me to apply there just because they have such a large amount of financial support for PhD candidates. I have other concerns, primarily that they may not offer guidance in my research interests since it deals with atheism and they are a Catholic institution.

Wanted to know if you all think it is hypocritical to apply to them due to them being a staunchly Catholic institution. I looked up some info on them and atheism and found out they even denied a student group the opportunity to establish an Atheist, Agnostic, and Freethinkers society, which most major universities have on their campuses. I actually don't have a problem with them being Catholic and don't want to participate in any sort of religious protest against them, I actually like chapels and such as I think they have beautiful architecture but I am thinking maybe they are not a place I belong so to speak. I sent an email to the dean asking her about my concerns but wanted to see if any of you had any thoughts, like I am overreacting or something. I also know that some of the students there protested against the ACA component of providing birth control to people on their health plans. As a graduate student I would be on their health plan but them not providing birth control also isn't a big deal to me, I just see it as maybe they are too conservative for my tastes. I actually consider myself rather conservative, but the denial of the organization I spoke of just rubbed me the wrong way. It happened last year BTW so not something that happened a long time ago.

I think I may be overreacting though. DH says I should apply because they reached out to me and because they have such a large amount of financial support, but I am just wary of going to a school where I will have to potentially be constantly on guard against people trying to convert me or not offer me the guidance/support in regards to my field of interest. Hope that makes since.

ETA: My undergrad institution is Methodist and I never had a problem there. It is also private and has an Atheist/Agnostic and Freethinkers club.

Erin

[Gwenn]

My first reaction is that, if you include that information in your personal statement, they would be making an informed decision should they choose to admit you. Possibly as a religious organization they might actually be interested in your topic of research? Or not, but if you were up front about it there would be nothing to hide.

Depends how you would feel about relying on their funding, though, at the end of the day.

[beanpop]

It's been slow the last few days but we have our moments. How are you?

I'm doing really good My sewing business has BOOMED and I am currently not taking new orders for the holidays. I hope to finish my current "to do" list by Dec 15th so I have a two week break before I open back up again. When I open up again I am going to re-do my stocking so that I can keep my workload down during the week. Especially since we're planning on getting pregnant soon! I DEFINITELY won't be able to keep up my current sewing if I'm pregnant. Besides that...life is good Work is OK, hoping to get a bonus this month (Dec) and maybe a raise. DD is going to be TWO. I have no idea how this happened

LOL! Anything to keep our little secular world going! I'm glad you were able to stop by; it's been a long time. I haven't had as much time as I'd like to tell you just how adorable little Maddy is. She's such a beautiful girl, and OMG, the smile!

Thank you so much Suja!! I know, since I've barely been on APA for a few months (and you're not on Facebook much) we just barely see each other!!

[AmeriBrit]

That's great to hear about your sewing business, Karen!

I've taken the day off work today since Cash is still covered with chicken pox. The good news is that he doesn't have any new sports today and they all look to be crusted over. I think he'll be fine to go back to nursery on Monday. I don't mind being off today since all I would've been doing is still making stupid props for the Christmas play. And Cash is being extra cuddly, so that's a bonus. I'm trying to keep him busy so that he doesn't scratch too much.

I'm going to use this time to sort out the rest of my Christmas shopping as well.

Oh, Erin, I meant to say as well, that I think that I would go ahead and apply to that college just to see what they say.

[missychrissy]

I'm happy to hear your sewing business has boomed! I don't know how you manage to squeeze in the time. No wonder we haven't seen you!

Erin, I'm so anti-religious institution, I was shaking my head no the entire time I read your post (total bias here, I know)...but then when I read how much they're offering for support, well, I'd be lying if I didn't say I'd consider it. I'd be very worried about them trying to pressure you and 'save' you while you attended though. That would be my biggest concern. It doesn't look well on them that they won't allow the non-religious group.

BUT-since they're waiving the application fee, it doesn't hurt to apply. You can decide later, after they accept you, what you want to do. I really wish Cornell allowed your tests (I can't remember the term you used, but I know what you're talking about. Bobbie took the ones Cornell accepts at Candor). We have great scholarship opportunities here and 50% of our 'kids' (as I call them) are here on scholarships. Cornell really prides itself on being one of the more accepting Ivy League schools of lower income students. I think I mentioned during my orientation we got to sit in a meeting with both the Major and Principal Gifts directors (they're associated with the major, major donors...the 350 million we got last year was through their office) and they were adamant that even that guy that donated the 350 million couldn't pull strings to get someone in. The best someone with a multi-million dollar donation can hope to get is a building with his/her name on it.

Anyway...it would be so cool to have you here but I understand I'll get over my sadness. lol


I'm having major sleep issues. I think I posted that Rich had to come down and wake me up Wednesday morning because I didn't answer the phone. I'd asked him to call and make sure I was up because I've been having such a hard time. It's a good thing he did, and I am so grateful that he came down and pounded on my door. Anyway, it sorta happened again today. I did wake up by the 2nd time he called, but it was far too late to get myself and Conner ready, then run Conner to his dad's in time for me to catch my bus. So I asked Rich if he'd come get Conner. I hate doing that.

I took a light over the counter sleeping pill last night in the hopes that I'd fall asleep before 2:00 a.m. It worked, but now my problem is the longer I sleep the harder it is for me to wake up. I can wake easy if I've only been sleeping 3-4 hours. But I'm burning out really, really fast doing that. I don't feel like I had any time off at all, and I only worked 1 day last week. It doesn't help that it's so ridiculously busy and crazy here. I'm not the only one that's saying it either. Darling Faye, who never complains, said yesterday we're all going to be dead by Christmas. And Scotty was multi-tasking and we conferred about an issue quick and he just looked at me before he headed upstairs and said sarcastically, "Just think. We're doing all this for a 2% raise." Because that's all we got this year...2 or 2.5%. And I think I already told you I lost it on one of my favorite IT buddies. I stomped away saying, "FINE! I'LL DO IT! I'LL DO EVERYTHING!!" I barely kept the word f'n out. I wanted to say, "I'll DO EVERY F'N THING!!" It wasn't like he didn't have an overfull plate too. We're just all so stressed and we're barking at each other. I hate it. I genuinely love my coworkers already and we usually have a great working relationship and lots of laughs.