Secular Confessions

[daylilies]

Hi Anna!
I've been here for ages and I recognize your screen name but I have been in and out lately and I don't remember a lot about you. But hi!

First of all you should be proud and happy that your son came to you. A lot of kids feel they can't come out to their parents. How did you react?

It is scary, I do hope his friends are supportive. I think if you feel like crying, do it. In a way it is kind of a loss, not in a bad way, but a loss of the person you thought he was.
Those are my thoughts for now-I hope you stick around, we're very supportive! I think most of us can say the women in this room are the best friends we have

[3andMe]

Hi Anna,

Don't worry about popping in here. I know it's intimidating, and most of us can't keep up even if we're in here all the time. Anyone is welcome, and it sounds like you really need to talk. My best friend in high school told me he was gay when he was 17. I was the first person he told, besides his boyfriend. He was scared to death. We lived in a very small, conservative town, and I don't know that we had ever talked about the subject. He was risking a lot. This was 20+ years ago, too. I told him nothing he could say would surprise me, that I still loved him, and I just wanted him to be careful and find love. Today he is in a committed long-term relationship with his partner of more than a decade. We spend holidays together. My children call him Uncle, and his partner Uncle. They don't blink twice at the kids in their classes who have two mommies or two daddies. My daughter asks if she has to marry a boy or if she can marry a girl and I tell her it depends on where she lives and the laws but those might change by the time she grows up.

It's even easier these days to find happiness as a gay teenager and then adult, although of course there is always a huge reality shift when your child is not what you expect in some way or another. You worry about bullying, STDs, and all of the other things that make the news, but that can happen no matter what, and again, it's much better than in years past.

Again, it's totally normal to cry, too. Don't feel guilty for being upset at his school performance. No matter what he was going through, you are a parent and of course you were concerned about his grades. It's hard to help when you don't know what's going on.

Here is a good article to read about when your child comes out: http://www.everydayhealth.com/family...cceptance.aspx

The article references PFLAG, which is an excellent resource. Here is one page of Dos and Don'ts for families and friends: http://community.pflag.org/page.aspx?pid=541

Your son is lucky that he has some supportive friends who encouraged him to be open with you. It sounds like he has some positive peer influences who will be able to help him through this tumultuous time of coming out and high school in general.

And hey, here's a hug from me and (if I can) from the rest of us, who are probably off doing a lot of stuff on this weekend day and can't post right now but would do it if we could. It will be okay.

[heartmyboyz]

Thank you so much. My reaction was pretty lame. I just stared at him blankly and blinked my eyes a few times. Then my first thought was to ask him if he was ok and I did that. He smiled and said yes. I am sad and I am going to cry. But I do feel better after hearing your words. Thank you ladies so much. I am meeting up with his "godmother" today and was going to talk to her about it. Then I thought is that really a good idea. I don't wanna say anything if he might change his mind later. But I know that's not gonna happen. Why am I evening thinking that way??

I will look at those those articles now. Thank you for the resources and hugs.

[Bridget]

Oh I don't have time to post much now but want to throw out a quick hug and I will say more later! Don't feel guilty. Just feel what you feel and work it all out. Stick around and we'll help you!

[Cosmosmom]

I have heard good things about this book http://www.amazon.com/Ready-Not-They.../dp/0981546285

It's ok to be a bit shocked....even when you suspect. Your son is very brave. Coming out is probably one of the hardest things I can imagine. I don't know where you live but I'm midwest....and had an out friend in high school....and this was almost 20 years ago. He was fairly well accepted.

I would want him to know that I loved him and was proud of him (and that is what I told my sister when she came out to me). Oh and I also said that nothing mattered to me except that she was happy.

[demigraf]

Anna - The great thing about where you live is that there is so so much diversity to the area. I know your immediate area is full of machismo and burly guys who might tease him because of the presence of the port, but you're still in LA. WeHo (gay LA HQ) is less than 30 min away. Your son will find lots of support with peers if he looks just outside his immediate sphere. As his mom, I would encourage him to venture out beyond your immediate area - try meetup.com or other gay online resources - so that he becomes more and more assured that a large support network does exist for him.

Sorry, I have to make this quick because of a busy Saturday, but had to offer some support and hugs.

Kate, I think B is an extrovert, though I haven't fully formed my view of him there. How does that differ from the needs of a spirited I
introvert?

[Bridget]

Hey ladies I got Kai's allergy panel in the mail today and he ranged from moderate to very high reaction to: Casein, whey, milk, cheese, eggs.
Time to make some serious changes to his diet and it's going to be difficult. Cheese was a big source of protein for us. He doesn't eat much meat and doesn't like nut butters all of a sudden.

[Bridget]

Oh, and Anna, my parents has a pretty difficult time with my brother's coming out. Of course they told him their love was unconditonal but my dad has admitted to that behind closed doors he really struggled with it. Now it's no different than the fact that he likes to wear flip flops in the winter. A simple and small part of who he is.

[Suja]

Anna, don't feel guilty about how you feel. It cannot be helped. While I would have no problems if Mira announced that she is gay, I would still be a little sad, because she is headed down a more difficult path. The good news is that people in general are more accepting, the younger generation especially so.

Best to you and your son. He has done an incredibly brave thing. You can tell him that I admire him for his courage, and the faith he has in you and his friends.

[3andMe]

I am so not a princessy type of person, but I dressed up for all of the kids' Halloween activities and carnivals at their schools today and DD and I were like a Renaissance portrait. People kept telling me that I should dress like that every day.

[Suja]

Lydia, that is just lovely!

[missychrissy]

Anna. I know how shocking and disappointing it is to finally hear it, even when you suspect. Bobbie came out to me a few years ago. I wasn't surprised. I think the disappointment simply comes from the fact that we're conditioned to expect our kids to match up with an opposite sex partner. Even if we're not homophobic (and I'm not, and wasn't then), it's still 'different'. As parents, we don't want our children to have difficult lives. While society has come a long way, we're not there yet and we know our kids WILL face discrimination and be excluded simply for this. It will hurt them, and in turn that will hurt us. We might not think all that out in the moment of being told, but it's instinctively known.

I've only told all my kids the truth-I'll always love them and as long as they're with someone that treats them well that is all I care about. I don't care about age, sex, color, or anything. It's really not my business. I only want them happy and only my children themselves can choose who will make them happy. Other than that, I wouldn't offer any advice unless I was asked for it. They of course have my undying support.

[missychrissy]

Bridget, I'm sorry Kai is allergic to so much common stuff, but it has to be some relief to finally know. Now you can formulate some recipes and not worry about what's causing that awful rash for him.

[girlwonder]

Sorry for the long post:

My uncle died last night. He has always been lost, did a lot of drugs in his teens and then when he was 19 he joined the Moonies. He spent the next 20 years in the cult and when he came out it was almost like he was impaired: he simply never grew up. Since he left the Moonies in 1986, he just drifted. He drove a taxi here in town for a while, but was fired for being high on the job. He sold carnations on the side of the road. Any gig he could get where it didn't matter if he was high. He told me once that he rolls his own cigarettes that have about 25% pot in them and that amount keeps him high enough to feel good but not enough to keep him from functioning. He lived in the garage apartment of my grandmother until she died and since then he has lived in a variety of places, including a storage shed on some land his father owned (no running water or electricity). He lived with us very briefly right after he got out of the Moonies. After a month, he declared undying love for my step-sister, saying that because they weren't blood-related it was okay. It's like his brain wasn't connected to reality at all. So he's just been creepy sad Uncle Steve since then, floating around with no ambition or direction or reason. Just nothing at all. He had a good heart I think but was just too damaged.

He had a friend here in town who told him that he could crash at his place whenever he needed to and that he would leave the third-floor window open for him to climb up into. Late last evening he was found on the sidewalk in front of this house with multiple head wounds. He later died at the hospital. The guy who lives in the house told the detective that he thinks Steve was just climbing up to get in the window to sleep there last night. There were no witnesses to what happened. My brother thinks that he was actually beat up because he doesn't think that you could get those kinds of injuries just from a fall. I don't know what's going to happen with that, but he is going to call the detective on Monday. And the autopsy should at least reveal all the injuries and make it more clear what might have happened.

I was almost relieved in a way to hear of his death, simply because he has always been so unhappy, so unable to live a straight life, a rebellious teenager who never outgrew the rebellion - it just doesn't work as well for a 60 year old man. I feel sad for my aunt, who has now lost both her brothers in freak accidents. I know that she must also feel a little relieved because she and her husband have been basically supporting him for about 10 years now. They gave him the money to get his Microsoft certification and he spent it on drugs.

I am completely freaking out though about this: he didn't have anything to indicate next of kin and somehow the police tracked down the number for my stepmother who had changed her last name from my dad's last name when she married again a year after dad died so I don't know how it happened that she was the first one they called. So she knew yesterday evening that MY uncle died but I have yet to hear one word from her. I would probably be mystified and hurt about it anyway, but get this: she did the same.exact.thing when my dad died. My dad crashed his plane at 11:00 a.m. I was calling him all day because we were renting out his photo studio to another photographer and I was trying to find out something for them. I tried all day long but he wasn't answering his phone. Finally after the other photographer left the studio, I tried my dad's house thinking that surely he was home by 7:30 p.m. When I called, my stepsister answered the phone and when I asked for Dad, she just said "Ummm..." and then my stepmother came on the line and told me there had been an accident and that dad was dead. So here's the thing: she has known since probably NOON that my dad is dead. I called the house at 7:30 p.m. That's 7.5 hours that she knew. She had time enough to call her own kids to get them over there to her house to comfort her. Yet I had to call the house and ask for my dad before she thought to tell me he was dead. I wonder when or even IF she would have ever told me! And of course there was no appropriate time to ask her what the delay was about, why she didn't tell me or my brother, or anything. Because she was the grieving widow and I was all in pieces myself. I haven't ever talked to her about it, but after this I am really tempted to send her an email asking her for an explanation for that behavior as well as this most current shocking omission.

Anyway, this is a super-long post and I'm sorry for that, but I am feeling like it's Groundhog Day for sociopathic behavior.

Also, I have to cancel and try to reschedule Jo Jo's birthday party which was scheduled for Saturday at 3. So I have to drive four hours on Saturday to attend the funeral and then turn around after the reception and drive back another four hours home. I think I am going to try to have the party the next day Sunday afternoon- my in-laws are going to be in town and this is the last weekend before Christmas that I have open. Oh, I am just getting tired thinking about the next week.

[missychrissy]

I'm so sorry Katy. What a tragic life he led. That makes me so sad for him.

As for your former stepmother...ugh. I can see my stepmother doing the same thing if something happened to my father. I'm surprised you didn't question her about it all this time. It must really bother you. I know it would me. She sounds thoughtless and selfish and actually downright cruel.

[girlwonder]

Thanks Chrissy. He made me really sad too. He was just broken.

I think that I haven't asked because I don't want to hear a bs excuse. That would make me even more angry. I worry that i would listen and then pretend to agree that it is sufficient excuse for how she chose to behave because since I was six I have had to go along with her version of reality and maybe I don't have sufficient strength of will to go against 37 years of behavior training. I don't know. I just dread seeing her or talking to her about anything ever and nothing she says will change the fact that she is a bad person.

And yes, she was cruel and ugly to both of us growing up. She told me once when I was 11 that one day when I was grown up I would be pretty, just like the ugly duckling. She has always treated me as if I was "slow" and stupid and I wouldn't understand that she was being mean while pretending to be supportive.

[girlwonder]

Oh, and I realize I didn't mention that I heard About my uncle's death from my aunt who called from Dallas at 2:30 this afternoon. My stepmother called her last night to tell her. So I guess no one in my family is really into timely information-giving.

[missychrissy]

Thanks Chrissy. He made me really sad too. He was just broken.

I think that I haven't asked because I don't want to hear a bs excuse. That would make me even more angry. I worry that i would listen and then pretend to agree that it is sufficient excuse for how she chose to behave because since I was six I have had to go along with her version of reality and maybe I don't have sufficient strength of will to go against 37 years of behavior training. I don't know. I just dread seeing her or talking to her about anything ever and nothing she says will change the fact that she is a bad person.

I get that. I really do. I think that shows that you're a better person than I am because I'm not sure I'd be capable of keeping my thoughts to myself. But I don't know. That hasn't happened to me...yet. My brother and I have definitely talked about 'what if' and wondered how long it would take Shelda to tell us if something happened to our dad.

Oh, and I realize I didn't mention that I heard About my uncle's seath from my aunt who called from Dallas at 2:30 this afternoon. My stepmother called her last night to tell her. So I guess no one in my family is really into timely information-giving.

Our families are a lot alike. I recently posted about my father's side of the family not telling my brother or I that our grandmother was hospitalized. I'd only found out 'cause I happened to be texting Shelda about possibly taking Dad to the Glen Campbell concert. If I hadn't been talking to her that day, I don't know that they would have ever told us.

Sorry to hijack. I just get really pissy about this sort of thing. It's really inconsiderate. I'm sorry you have to deal with it too.

---

I just learned a new term and I'm both relieved and a little freaked. Demisexual. It's what I am. The short definition is just that a person (me) doesn't get sexually aroused until there's an emotional connection established first. I've always marveled how women could have one night stands and have fun because the concept has never been appealing to me. And not for any moral reason that I was aware of either. I've been with 6 guys. My 1st was just curiosity and I wondered what all the fuss was about because it didn't do a thing for me. One was just payback to Rich for hurting me, and then there was this other guy that I slept with once just because I thought that's what I was supposed to do. I'd been his gf for about 5 months. Again it was just meh...I'd rather have read a book and taken a hot bath. The other 3 I had genuine feelings for and enjoyed myself immensely. Once I lost that emotional connected feeling with Rich though, I couldn't 'get there' with the big O even though I succeeded each and every time for 19 years.

So anyway it's kinda a big relief/eye opener for me reading up on this. It's a lightbulb moment. But the freaky part is demisexuals are closely related to asexuals. I am reminding myself I do have a good time when the connection is there so I'm really not asexual. I'm not sure why that word bugs me so much...but it does.

Anyway...that's what I'm doing tonight. Reading up on various sexualities. What I found interesting about demisexuals is that they don't chose to be this way. It's not like I am 'saving' myself for my next long term relationship. I really don't feel any sort of physical/sexual attraction for anyone. Unless I'm emotionally connected. And that sorta explains the whole boss thing....I was alone with him for 4 years and spent more time with him than anyone. I had issues with him, but he was a friend too. Actually, he still is. But there's no more messing around going on.

[girlwonder]

Ive never heard of that before. I will have to look it up. Makes sense to me

[missychrissy]

I'm reading an article about it and the author is saying she doesn't enjoy porn-well, neither do I. Because demisexuals don't feel attracted to people without that emotional connection, watching strangers have sex cannot arouse them. It's really clicking for me.

[missychrissy]

Ok, one more thing and then I'm done. Demisexuals lack the 1st attraction-like looks, job status, etc. That doesn't nothing for demis. It's all about the personality, intelligence, etc. Things that you can only learn about a person over time. ding ding ding, we have a winner. Once a demisexual does connect, the person will appear attractive to them but appearances don't matter initially. The person could look like Brad Pitt or Lyle Lovett. That would explain why Julia Roberts was married to Lovett for a time. I'm sure once the connection was made, Lyle was handsome in Julia's eyes.

[daylilies]

I'm sorry Katy

Chrissy, that's interesting about demisexuals. I think it's a little weird when you find a label for yourself. When a therapist suggested that I was bipolar a few years ago I was freaked out too because I felt like it lumped me into this big scary category.

Myles, I'll address your question about intro/extroverts needs tomorrow, please remind me if I forget but I can't quite collect my thoughts on it now. It's been kind of a long day!

[3andMe]

Katy, I'm so sorry to hear about your uncle. What a tragic way to go, and what a sad life. And very sorry to hear how frustrated and angry and upset and stressed you must feel on top of all that, having to deal with the emotions about not being notified, and the memories it brings back of how it was when your father died, and rearranging the birthday party. I am feeling very sad for the life he must have led, but more sad for you because are the one picking up the pieces and dealing with stuff right now and it sucks for you.

Bridget, I'm sorry I haven't commented yet about Kai's allergies and test results. I really don't know what to say about them, except it's incredibly hard having a lot of allergies, and sometimes they can manifest in different ways. I think I'm allergic to hops, for example, but all it means is that I get a stuffy nose when I drink certain beers. I would take Tapir up on her offer and PM her with the results and ask her for her opinion.

[missychrissy]

I just really freak about it being so closely related to an asexual. I'm not. I have a strong sexual drive...when I'm in a relationship with someone I want to have sex with. Rich & I averaged 3-4 times a week for 19 years. Never less than twice a week unless I'd given birth. That was one of the reasons I hung on so long...I worried what it would be like without 'it'. Honestly, I don't miss it. Well, I do in an abstract sense. I'd like to have a relationship with that again some day, but I don't feel urges and haven't needed to visit an adult store or anything. I probably won't. Now that I read the definition, it appears it's normal for me to not get aroused until I feel connected.

The hard part will be finding some sucker to spend enough time with me in order for that connection to develop. I already know from past experience that just doing it isn't going to make me feel connected, so I'm not even going to try. If I'm not feeling it, I'm not going there.

[daylilies]

Oh and Lydia that was a gorgeous picture of you and Claire.

[daylilies]

Chrissy, I can relate to people being more attractive once you get to know them. And I don't think there's anything wrong with not wanting to have sex with someone you haven't gotten to know yet!

[missychrissy]

Oh and Lydia that was a gorgeous picture of you and Claire.

Yes, I agree. Very classy and elegant.

[missychrissy]

Chrissy, I can relate to people being more attractive once you get to know them. And I don't think there's anything wrong with not wanting to have sex with someone you haven't gotten to know yet!

No, I don't think there's anything wrong with being a demisexual. I simply don't like it being related to asexual because the misconception could be made that I never want to have sex or I'm frigid or something. Far from it.

I do sorta worry about how I'll ever manage to find someone else that I loved as deeply as Rich or felt as connected to as my former boss even. I mean, heck I spent 4 years with him without any hanky-panky or even the slightest bit of flirtation or inappropriate behavior/words exchanged. Not once. When am I ever going to have another opportunity like that? I was thinking my 'problem' was that I really needed to know that the guy liked me for me, not just wanted me for my body. Then I stumbled on this new-to-me term and the more I read the more I see myself in it. There are obstacles, but at the same time I'd rather be like this than so horny I find myself hooking up with random men in a bar. Ick.

[daylilies]

You could try meeting guys online...chat with them for a while so you know they're interested because the guys who just want to **** won't stick around to chat. IDK how you feel about the whole online dating concept.

[missychrissy]

You could try meeting guys online...chat with them for a while so you know they're interested because the guys who just want to **** won't stick around to chat. IDK how you feel about the whole online dating concept.

I had a POF account for a week or two but it didn't work out. I was overwhelmed with 200 messages in like 2 days (or something like that) and the vast majority of it was crap like, "are you looking for something discreet?" or "are you willing to relocate?" wtf? I nearly wrote him back and said yes, I'd be there next Wednesday and ask for his address just to mess with his head.

I met 1 guy who appeared pretty cool. Actually met him face-to-face a couple times, I mean. He was decent in that he could carry on a conversation about anything other than sex, was pretty open about his life, athletic (road a bike a LOT, like to/from work-15 miles- 3x a week, bike-a-thons and the like), professional...yadda yadda yadda. Even he had the attitude that he wasn't really looking for a real relationship, but possibly a long term fwb situation. I think it was supposed to be exclusive. I didn't shut him out because although he brought it up early, he didn't press about it and seemed to be cool with just being friends with me. So I thought I'd write him daily, meet him occasionally and just see where it went.

It ended up with a huge fight between us about women's health care and me learning he was a Romney supporter. "I met him! He's a nice guy!" Yeah, that ended that. And I deleted my POF account.

In my reading about demisexuals, dating sites don't really work for this reason. I'm sure I'll just find someone-probably when I'm not looking. That's how it happened with the former boss. Hopefully the next one won't be married