Secular Confessions

[Ky'sMom]

Suja/Erin, I'm running my IPOARM numbers right now. What do you guys think...

I don't know if I should classify myself as Lightly Active or Moderately Active. I have a sedentary desk job, but then I do 90 min of hot yoga at least twice a week, run 40-75 minutes 2x a week, also do an hour of some other cardio (spin/elliptical/dance/boot camp) at least 2x/wk , and do core strengthening weight lifting 2x wk. (Plus, I plan to start an almost-daily progressive weight lifting routine on advice of my physical therapist).

In addition to that question , when he says "eat your exercise calories", is that not already figured into the TDEE estimate when you choose between Sedentary/Light/Moderate/Very Active/Extremely Active. If I burn an average of 400 cals on a 4-mile run, do I eat an additional 400 cals (even if I chose Moderately Active?)

Bridget, I'm sorry I missed the post about Kai defending Savana. He's a little hero. Good job, mama!!

How many hours per week do you exercise Myles?

If it is greater than 6 I would consider using moderately active. Just from your description though and because you have a desk job, I would put lightly active. Sitting most of the day takes away a lof of activity.

Since you stated you are going to begin weight training, I would suggest you eat back those calories on days you weight train outside of your normal activities. It is difficult to gauge how many calories one burns during weight training. I know MFP is off on my own calorie output as I have a My Fit and it tells me how many calories I burn and what is says is much more than what MFP said. MFP also said I burned in excess of 700 calories on the elliptical for only 30 minutes, which was way above what I burn as I do that after my weight training and only do it at a moderate pace and don't let my heartbeat go over 145 bpm.

But I am not expert on this as I looked into it a long time ago. Maybe Suja will have better advice. I know I label myself though as "sedentary" even though I do workout in excess of 6 hours per week, I do this mostly because I feel those 6-8 hours of exercise are minimal in regards to how much I sit at work. I also have a desk job and rarely get up more than 3-4 times per day and I usually eat lunch at my desk (talking to you ladies while I'm doing that!)\

Erin

[Bridget]

Erin, I like the way you think in regards to your dh and the relationship with the kids. I have been adopting that attitude as well. He's on his own as far as I'm concerned and it has gotten to the point that the kids, they don't even look for him when they come home, don't say goodbye to him when they leave for school, don't ask him to join us when we go places. I would be devastated if I were him but I honestly don't think he even notices.
For weeks now I have been telling him that my bff's mom is having a going away party for her and I'm planning to go with the kids. It's a 2 hour drive so I wanted to give him a heads up because while that's not a big deal to me, it is to him. So I've reminded him several times as it grows near and last night I very cautiously asked him if he made a decision about coming with us and his response was that he hasn't thought about it at all, not even for a spit second. His excuse is that he's got so much on his mind for work but he's a drama queen imo and it really doesn't seem like he has all that much going on. Every little thing he does for the company he's acting like he just saved Wall Street or something. Anyway, I said I thought that was kind of rude for him to say that since I'd asked so many times and he might want to think about wording things differently next time. Well, he took that to heart obviously (note sarcasm) because the next thing he said was that he HATES going on road trips because he HATES driving and that I ALWAYS fall asleep and ALWAYS read my book and put audio books on for the kids so he can't even listen to music and it's totally miserable for him.
Hmmm. The only part of that that is true is that I do always put audio books on for the kids because it keeps them totally and completely blissful. Seriously. They don't make a peep. The rest about me reading and sleeping and such is just hogwash, though I have read before and slept before I don't make a habit of it because Queen DBF needs someone to talk to him while he drives and I know that. I also offer to drive every single time but that would mean he'd have to attend to the children and he doesn't want that. Anyway, I just told him that he could have simply said he didn't want to go instead of saying all of those things and taking away from every road trip we've ever had where I mistakenly thought we enjoyed ourselves. Eff it. He's not even invited to the party anymore as far as I'm concerned.

You guys have me very curious about this weight loss plan. I need to get active again.

Ash, is the new job going well then? You must be busy, don't see you on here as much.
Suja, your parents arrived?
Missy, everything still going well for Conner at kindy?

Savana had a meeting with the boy and the principal today and he apologized to her and I was told that Savana was very gracious and forgiving. I'm glad they addressed it.

[demigraf]

Savana is a sweetheart.

How many hours per week do you exercise Myles?

If it is greater than 6 I would consider using moderately active. Just from your description though and because you have a desk job, I would put lightly active. Sitting most of the day takes away a lof of activity.

It's tough to say how many hours, Erin. Collectively, it's definitely more than 6. I was low-balling. I have an especially hard time classifying the Bikram yoga I do. 2x (3 hrs) a week is my minimum, and it's usually more like 4.5 hrs a week of just the yoga. Because of the heat (105+ degrees in the room) your perceived level of exertion is high, but the actual calorie expenditure is controversial. Some claim you burn 1000 cals per session, but I think that's just outrageous. When I used to do Ashtanga yoga, which is way more active, I'd burn maybe just 350-400 cals in 90 minutes.

Which leads to the other thing you brought up; it's really hard to find a reliable source for how many calories you're truly burning. The read-outs on machines are deceiving (their manufacturers have an incentive to make you think you're burning more than you do). 750 cals/hr on an elliptical? Nah. And so are the numbers on the websites. So even if it turns out I do need to eat back my exercise calories, I don't know how to accurately calculate how many calories I need to eat back.

Suja? Any thoughts?

I think I'll pose my questions to that Dan guy on the IPOARM forum. He is shockingly helpful.

[missychrissy]

Your dbf is a trip Bridget I'd love to smack him for you.

Conner is still loving school, but tonight he wants his blanket and says his throat hurts when he swallows so I'm sure he's coming down with something.

We had Syd's open house tonight She's an 8th grader. I cannot believe it!

I decided to give Jesi my VW for her 18th birthday. Rich & my brother wouldn't fix it for me and it's just been sitting. It's going to start rotting if it's not used. I'm sure if there's a fix for it, they'll figure it out for her. I'd rather see it driven than rotting. Plus, maybe she'll let me borrow it next summer

[Gwenn]

Well, DH and I argued last night and argued again this morning and I fumed most of the morning at work about him. Got home to find he had constructed a play area for the dog with his kennel attached, a pee area, and an eating area with lots of room to play. Didn't say a word about it until I found it. So puppy can play in there when he is not being watched, and then when he can be watched can come out with us.

Puppy is developing attitude this week. Oh, and he's discovering he can howl. He puts his little head back and it's the cutest thing if he didn't sound so sad when he did it.

[daylilies]

Wow Mandy, that sounds pretty cool. Sorry you were fighting so much though
The howling sounds so cute! That sound is so sad and haunting though. Can you get a video of it sometime?

[Gwenn]

I will try. DH took a video on his phone and couldn't email it to me because the file was too big. I'll give it a shot if I can catch him at it. Fortunately, he doesn't do it often.

[daylilies]

Yeah, that would probably go from cute to annoying pretty fast. LOL

[Bridget]

I love puppy howls.
I don't feel good.
I'm nervous about Kai's appt tomorrow. I'm spending money we don't have and really hoping it's productive.
Savana and Kai had a physical fight in the hallway before bed. They were hitting and yelling. They never do that. I feel like the school environment is teaching them violent behavior. That same kid that attacked Savana hit Kai at recess today. Minor altercation, but still. So after they beat each other up I had to take away storytime which is all of our favorite time of day. They were so upset about that and I almost regretted it but once I said it, I couldn't take it back. Besides, what they did was a huge violation of our family rules.
My stomach hurts and I want my mom.

[Gwenn]

Oh, Bridget.

[missychrissy]

Bridget, I'm so sorry.

75% of my kids are very sick right now. Syd, Bobbie, and Conner. I'm staying home tomorrow with Conner and will likely have Syd too. And Bobbie, but she lives here. It's Jesi's 18th birthday tomorrow & we were supposed to have a BBQ/Bonfire celebration for her. I'm not sure if that's going to happen now at all.

[daylilies]

I'm so sorry Bridget

To be honest I hate to see all this negativity towards schooling. There are lessons kids need to learn whether they go to public school or not. How to deal with bullies, how to handle conflicts...I think they are important lessons and it sucks that they're exposed to it so early but I think it's better to learn these things now than at a much later age when they've never seen it before but their other peers have.

Good luck at the appt. tomorrow! I really hope it's very productive.

[Cosmosmom]

LOL funny how different perception is. I was basically told any class that unless you do nothing but lie in bed ALL the time, you are at least a little above totally sedentary. And since I'm starting out at such a low level physically, for myself, I would consider anything extra daily a bonus. I would be thrilled to get in 2 hours a week regularly.
I actually believe it about the elliptical. Why when i do something, i do that. I can burn about 175-200 calories on it in 10 minutes depending how often I stop...and I go pretty moderate when I do. But at least some of that is I'm starting at a much higher weight so I burn a lot more.


Mandy, we fought a LOT when we first got Molly. So much that we started rethinking a baby at least somewhat.

[Cosmosmom]

Bridget

[Bridget]

Are you talking about my negativity towards schooling? Sorry about that. I'll stop bringing it up all the time. This is just where I come to talk about it since I don't really have anyone to talk to about it irl. It's just been a really difficult transition for us I guess. Savana and Kai actually have really excellent conflict resolution skills. I just hate that they have to put them to use so often. I think they are putting too much effort into that and it takes away from the learning experience. Public school teachers are great but they lack resources and the class sizes are way too big. I have zero desire for my five and six year old children to be learning to deal with bullies.

[missychrissy]

I'm with you Bridget. It's gotten way out of hand. None of us are going to work and being hit by our peers. If it happened once, they'd be arrested. It's unfair to expect our kids to tolerate things that would be illegal if they happened to us.

I was always told that if you sit at a desk all day at work, you're a 'sedentary' lifestyle. Just running 3-4x a week is moderately active. Actually, there was some study that suggested it's much healthier to have an active job than it is to spend 3-4 hours in a gym daily.

[Gwenn]

I do agree with Kate that while it hurts your heart, it is to their advantage to have that experience sooner rather than later. I would continue to be in contact with the teacher about it, though, to be certain there were consequences for that kid.

I do think Kai is a little hero for coming to Savana's rescue!

[daylilies]

Not just you Bridget.

I didn't want Josh to have to learn about bullies at any age but I'm happy that with Josh's experience with the little girl who wasn't adjusting well, he was wise enough to tell the teacher and also tell me something that he didn't think the teacher knew, so that I could make her aware of it. It's a tough lesson but I'm glad he learned it now. I'm not harping on your desire to homeschool them, I admire you for that and I know you'd find a way to socialize them. I'm not one of those people who thinks homeschooled kids are unsocialized weirdos. LOL I just think there can be valuable lessons to be learned when children are less supervised and have to learn how to handle themselves.

I'm probably putting my foot in my mouth, so I'll shut up now

[daylilies]

I'm with you Bridget. It's gotten way out of hand. None of us are going to work and being hit by our peers. If it happened once, they'd be arrested. It's unfair to expect our kids to tolerate things that would be illegal if they happened to us.

Well no, but bullying does continue into adulthood.

[Gwenn]

I know what you are saying, Kate, and I agree. I'm not down on homeschooling in any way so I'm also not trying to say that.

[Bridget]

I guess we have to agree to disagree. I think it's in a child's best interest to be in a peaceful surrounding where they feel safe. The people that were mean to me in school didn't benefit me in any way as far as I'm concerned. They just made me insecure and that insecurity did not lead me to anywhere good.
Anyway, I'll tone it down and won't subject y'all to my negativity. I don't think it's all bad of course. I just vent here, you know? I'm sorry I came off that way. I'm just feeling overwhelmed right now.
Signed,
Sourpuss

[daylilies]

Oh no, I really didn't mean I *hate* hearing about it. I always want to hear about what's on your mind, Bridget. I think we can agree to disagree! Please don't tone anything down.

[missychrissy]

I guess we have to agree to disagree. I think it's in a child's best interest to be in a peaceful surrounding where they feel safe. The people that were mean to me in school didn't benefit me in any way as far as I'm concerned. They just made me insecure and that insecurity did not lead me to anywhere good.
Anyway, I'll tone it down and won't subject y'all to my negativity. I don't think it's all bad of course. I just vent here, you know? I'm sorry I came off that way. I'm just feeling overwhelmed right now.
Signed,
Sourpuss

I'm still with you. I too tolerated things in school that I have never experienced irl since. It was hell. And absolutely unacceptable. It made me very fearful and shy. Especially in elementary/early middle school.

I still have a really, really hard time making friends and trusting people (irl, I trust y'all ). I can count on one hand the # of people I've opted to put trust into in the last 20 years...and when that trust is betrayed I have an exceptionally hard time with it...even now. I can't help but think that if I had had a more positive experience I'd be able to trust easier, perhaps have a larger circle of friends, and thus it wouldn't matter so much when I lose one here or there.

I'm done with the pity party. I'm really tired and like I said before, I have 3 sick kids. It's getting to me 'cause I can't do anything to make them feel better.

[Suja]

Doing this really quickly. Haven't even had time to eat today, quite honestly.

Myles, you're at least moderately active. If you are following IPOARM, you are eating TDEE - a certain %, usually no more than 20%. Since your activity is already figured into the TDEE, you do not eat back your calories. Given your activity level, I'm thinking that you'll be eating A LOT. If you are doing serious weight training, on those days, make sure that you're eating at maintenance.

Bridget, I'm sorry your kids are having a tough time in school. I hope that you can work with the school to get the bullying handled. And fingers crossed for you getting an answer to what ails Kai.

[Cosmosmom]

Well no, but bullying does continue into adulthood.

I agree with this. I have pulled up tons of research at work because it can be a big problem in my field (well not librarians really but healthcare and especially nursing).

[Cosmosmom]

Bridget I hope that you have a good appt tomorrow. And don't tone things down....I would be feeling pretty sourpuss if I had even half the crap going to deal with that you have.


Bullying should be a zero tolerance policy. But it also seems a good lesson to learn to deal with conflict and that not everyone is going to always like everyone....and that it's great that the kids are learning who to go with problems at a point in time when they still like and talk to parents.
I'm also not anti-homeschool....I had planned for years on doing it myself when living in Milwaukee. We have pretty good schools where I currently live so I plan on using them. That said, I also think that it's really healthy for kids to be with others and not have mom there every time all the time. And even though I believe that, it's going to be hard for me because I helicopter enough with my dogs as it is! Just the idea of kenneling them for two nights is super hard on me and I don't want to do it. I think I might cry when I leave them there.

And besides that....this is the ONE room where we don't have to all agree on everything but still love each other.

Bridget, I was going to ask if you had seen the stuff on rice making headlines. I saw that and thought of you....I mean I care but I'm not going to stop eating rice but also don't eat it daily....maybe once a week or every other week.

[raspberry]

Bridget, I hope you get answers tomorrow at Kai's appt.

Talking about bullying, I got it from teachers/coaches because I was not athletic at all. They all assumed because I was tall I wanted to play sports, when I would rather have my nose in a book. I have zero athletic talent and when you are constantly picked last for teams-ugh-horrible feeling.

Happy birthday Jesi, sorry the kids are sick Chrissy.

All this fitness talk needs to kick my @ss in gear. I have noticed how jiggly my thighs are, not a good look!!

[3andMe]

I think that most children are bullied in school, no matter what. And I think that bullying happens quite often in the adult work force. I am bullied in my job, definitely. I have been bullied to the point that I have considered quitting. Others have actually quit. I just learned today that a new nurse is being bullied, by the same person who bullies most of the staff. I'm one of the people considered more assertive, and I have considered quitting because of this guy. I don't have much recourse. I filed incident reports, I went up the chain of command, and instead I just got more harassed. I decided to only speak up about very important things, and to otherwise keep my head down. I "yes sir" and stand up for my staff when needed and deal with hearing snide remarks about how I follow the rules and how I am now his favorite screen saver, and I no longer get pulled behind closed doors and threatened.

DS was being punched in the stomach every day at preschool for a while. I didn't even know about it until DD told me. The overt things, like punching, are the easier things to deal with. You have an actual action you can point at and say "this guy did this thing to me." And you can have witnesses. The insidious things, like people not talking to you, or saying, "Nice pants" with a sneer, are less easy to point a finger at.

I think it's pretty hard to escape bullying entirely. It's possible to be pretty neutral most of the time, but at some point there will be a bullying or bullied incident, and possibly both. I think it is good to have a little bit of experience with how it feels to be both the underdog and the victor--possibly without the cruelty of bullying, but I still look back on some childhood incidents of mine and lessons I learned when things were milder and easier and how I appreciated those lessons then instead of later when they would have been much more difficult.

Like I put a tack on a teacher's chair in 2nd grade. It was turned into a huge incident, and I was accused of being racist because my teacher was not caucasian. I just found a tack on my chair and thought it would be funny to put it on the teacher's chair. The lecture I got, the incident that it turned into, was huge. I never ever thought about race. I never considered the consequences of my actions. Believe me, after that, I certainly did.

I'm not saying that bullying is good, by any means. Just saying that bullying is pretty inescapable, even in adulthood, and that I don't know if sheltering children from it from when young helps them deal with it better. I wonder if there has been any research on it. Well, I'm sure there has, just don't know if there is a definitive strategy for dealing with it. My dh was bullied really badly when he was a kid and we have some discussions about this from time to time. He and I disagree on the strategy to present to our kids. I keep telling him that self-confidence is the best strategy, and he keeps saying that being quick with the fists and going on the attack (since he was never allowed to do that and thinks that if he had been it would have made all the difference) would make a bully back down.

DS LOVES LOVES LOVES kindergarten. He has made a ton of friends. He is so happy there. He is in his element. He comes home every day and tells me how much fun he is having and how much he loves school. So there is a positive story, especially from someone who was pretty down on preschool and begged to stay home every school day before.

I am going out of town tomorrow for a work conference, and for the first time I am not taking DH and at least some of the kids with me. A whole night to myself!!!!! In a hotel! Can you believe it? I told DD she would have to be the mommy of the house while I was gone, and she said, "Well, I guess I can sweep while you are gone, but I think Daddy will have to mop, because I don't know if I can do that by myself." I was half proud, and half chagrined. I will be gone for 24 hours, and have arranged for DH to only have to take care of 2 kids at a time while I am gone (DS will spend the night at grandma's), and they will go have waffles at my mom's place in the morning and my mom will also take care of S. while he is napping. DH will not do laundry or chores or groceries.

Bridget and Gwenn, so sorry to hear about the dh/dbf arguments. I hope they straighten out.

[Gwenn]

I have also been bullied at work. A former boss, a former coworker, and by parents occasionally. Bullying is never a good thing, bit I agree that it's more subtle in adulthood and skills learned young help to deal with it. I don't have memories of being bullied as a young child, though, for me it came later.

I was very sheltered as a child, and the real world was a bit of a shock to me. It took me years to find my way as an adult, much more so than most. I wound up back to school later, married later, and TTC later and age is almost certainly a factor in our infertility. While I would change nothing, I do feel that a childhood that is free of all need to learn coping skills is not preparing a child for a successful adulthood.

L, enjoy your hotel experience! I'm a little envious.

DH hasn't apologized, but he's been super sweet and tonight after I said I was hungry after dinner he made me a berry crumble thing, all for me. I think it's his way of making up.

[Ky'sMom]

LOL funny how different perception is. I was basically told any class that unless you do nothing but lie in bed ALL the time, you are at least a little above totally sedentary. And since I'm starting out at such a low level physically, for myself, I would consider anything extra daily a bonus. I would be thrilled to get in 2 hours a week regularly.
I actually believe it about the elliptical. Why when i do something, i do that. I can burn about 175-200 calories on it in 10 minutes depending how often I stop...and I go pretty moderate when I do. But at least some of that is I'm starting at a much higher weight so I burn a lot more.

When I learned about IPOARM it stated that what you are referring to - the calories burned if you laid in bed all day - is considered your BMR (basal metabolic rate). The whole IPOARM thing can be confusing because instead of using BMR, you use TDEE (total daily energy expenditure). The BMR is included in your TDEE. The TDEE is a formula you use to calculate your calories expended based on how active you are throughout the day. Anyone with a desk job who only does light exercise, housework, and other daily chores would be considered Sedentary in the formula. Like I said, I use Sedentary for myself but I probably could go up to lightly or moderately active due to how much exercise I have been doing for the past 2 months. If I decide to go back to using IPOARM, I will label myself "Lightly Active" in order to be given a higher caloric goal.

I am lucky I guess in that I am not bullied by people around me. I was teased in school, but not really bullied either. I had a very hard demeanor and even as a nerdy girl with glasses people just didn't mess with me. One girl did in 7th grade and at that time I was going through a lot at home and she picked the wrong person to tease and I really hurt her - I beat her up in class and got suspended for 2 weeks. I felt bad about it. She was a newer girl at our school and the other kids did warn her not to mess with me but she didn't listen and back then I felt that she got what she deserved, but I still felt bad for beating her up so bad. I busted her lip and she had some black eyes and when I came back to school, she still looked pretty bad. Luckily since I was a good student and usually got along well with everyone, including teachers and administrators, I didn't get into too much trouble. I did apologize to her. She never apologized to me for her taunting and teasing though, which is what started the whole thing.

But I also feel that kids should be able to go to school without bullying/teasing. Both Savana and Kai are so young, and I can understand how you just want to protect them and not have to have them dealing with these sorts of things at all. I am the same way. Ky is very quiet most of the time and just a sweet boy (he hates when I call him that lol). When he went to Pre-K a little boy kept picking on him and even hitting him and it made me very angry and I felt that the teachers weren't doing enough about it. I will admit that I told him to punch that boy REALLY hard in the stomach and try to make him throw up (I blame my advice on my "ghetto" upbringing lol). When the boy messed with him again, Ky followed my advice, the boy didn't throw up but he didn't mess with him again and other kids in the class didn't hit him again either. They did taunt him though and I feel that taunting and teasing and giving kids the cold shoulder is worse in a way than hitting. A girl told him he was "ugly" and "fat." He was chubbier back then of course, but not fat and to this day he speaks about how he is fat due to what that girl told him. He also didn't think he looked very good for a long time and I could tell that he felt down about himself due to that girls' comment. This same girl in kindergarten was in his class and she got mad because she was taunting him and he gave her back some of her own medicine and she triedto stab him in the eye with a pencil, it left a mark on his face. DH was heavily bullied as a child, he didn't grow up with a "ghetto" family like mine who was very, I'll say aggressive, DH was very passive as a child and none of the teachers helped him with his bullying issues. Teachers actually embarrassed, shamed, and bullied him in front of the class. One story he told me was of a music teacher who had told him many times that his singing was bad. Due to that during chorus, he would lip sync because she would tell him he was messing up the whole choir. When she caught him lip singing one time she said in the front of the whole class that he wasn't singing and to sing the whole song by himself. He actually is not that good of a singer to this day (neither is Ky) and so his voice was cracking and he remembers holding back tears and the whole class including the teacher laughing at him. He couldn't tell his mom because she would always take the side of teachers and told him he'd better never get in trouble or he'd get a spanking. All of these memories came back to him during Ky's pencil incident and he went on a rampage at that school and got that girl suspended for 6 weeks and made the principal apologize to our whole family for not taking it seriously, she originally was only going to issue a warning to the girl.

So I understand fully about not wanting kids to go through that sort of thing. Elle told me a boy in her class keeps calling her a "slow poke" while she is washing her hands. She likes to sing the ABC song when she washes and make a lot of bubbles. And I guess this boy doesn't like that so he teases her about it. I told her to tell him he'd have to wait anyway and if he said something else to stick her tongue out at him. DH said that was bad advice lol, but she said she did it and he left her alone. Some other kids have told her she can't play with them yet because she is 3 and not 4 yet. She is the only 3 year old in the class but will be 4 next week (I cannot believe it either !). I sent her to school with a cool toy everyday and now everyone wants to play with her. I probably am not a good bully problem solver but at least I don't threaten them like my mom and dad did my brother and I. We were not allowed to get beat up or let anything happen to each other or we'd get a spanking from both of them, like I said "ghetto" upbringing. That's why people didn't mess with me, I had a reputation for being bad a$$ and even though I don't admire the few ghetto parts of me that remain, I am in a lot of ways grateful for the reputation I had as I didn't have to deal with a lot of crap from the kids around me. My teachers were also kind of weary of my parents, especially my dad who is rather huge and very loud so they didn't bully me either. I always feel so sorry for my DH and his bullying. All the pics of him as a kid, he looks sad. He had no one to be his "soft place." In a lot of ways I do think it is good that kids learn to deal with that sort of behavior young, but I also want to make sure we are always a soft place for them and if it gets to be too much, I want them to know they will always have a refuge with mom and dad and our home.

Erin