Myles, I do follow IPOARM, and have had great results. I use the online tool in that post to estimate my body fat. Not particularly accurate, but I don't have a way to get it done any other way. A caliper would be better. For tracking my loss, I use measurements, in addition to the scale. You're on your own with saag paneer; as a general rule, I don't eat green thingsI'll check my recipe books, though; I'm sure I can find a good one. Or ask my SIL, who makes a very good one.
Wow, Mandy. Your dh usually seems much more reasonable than he is being right now. I'd be po'd about that for sure.
Myles, LOVE the poopy song. I'd sing it to Sawyer but if Kai ever caught wind of that, it would be his new anthem for sure.
Kate, I agree with you that each challenge conquered just seems to be replaced with another. Isn't all of life that way though? Lol, or maybe that's just mine!
I forgot to tell you guys that after I brought Kai his fresh clothes and sent him back to class, Sawyer and I just walked around the school grounds since school was out in 45 minutes. The principal came outside when the busses pulled up and waved me over. She said, "I just want to tell you that I had some time with Kai today as I was helping with MAPS testing and..." at this point she put her hands to her heart and swooned, "He is SUCH a delightful child. I could not believe the things that were coming out of his mouth! He was so smart and thoughtful about each answer and shared a few stories with me and he is such a cool kid."
Talk about just what I needed!! I wanted to kiss her. I told her that I thought all those things too and how much it meant to me that she said that.
Oh, and Savana's teacher also stopped me when I picked up the kids and said that a child was blocking the hallway today and "Savana got hit and was very, very upset". Well, this was right after the bell rang and it was really chaotic in the hallway so I couldn't really ask her to elaborate but Savana told me tonight when I asked her what happened that she was going to put her lunchbox back into her locker and he blocked her and then punched her "over and over". Then she showed me where he hit her on the back and she has a bruise!! Jaysus as if she doesn't have anxiety already! I'm writing an email to her teacher and principal so they know this kid left a bruise. I mean, I'm not sure if the situation was minimized to me on purpose or if the teacher honestly didn't know the extent. I'm thinking the latter, but they should know, right??
So Suja, thanks so much for offering to call your pedi sil. I'm leaning towards the sulfer ointment I've been using to fight the maybe scabies as possible cause for the body rash. Because the body rash is not like scabies at all. The only part that looks a little like it could be scabies but could be other things as well, in on his legs. His entire body is really, really itchy though. Besides that I put a very diluted neem oil on him. Tonight we noticed his belly is looking distended/bloated as well. After reading what Lydia said I looked up the symptoms for diabetes and he does match several of them. I do remember them taking blood when he was 2 and I questioned his growth and they were testing for a host of metabolic disorders, diabetes and celiac included, and everything came back normal. I'm not finding out you can't test for celiac that young. Is that true for diabetes as well? ARgh. I am feeling so worried about all of this.
Thanks for being here for me ladies. I feel very much like I'm all ME ME ME right now in this thread.
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Ithat you got such great feedback about Kai. We all knew it, of course, but it's nice to hear others recognize those qualities in him as well. And yes, the school should CERTAINLY know that another child left bruises on Savanna. It almost sounds to me like they didn't take her seriously when she tried to tell them what happened and they acted like she might have been overreacting. I'm very sensitive to that because of my own bad experiences with Bobbie being bullied in Kindergarten. I hope they address this.
And awww...bless your heart B but you've been there for all of us (me in particular with my whole "me" series). You have something very serious going on and we're just as concerned and want to hear everything about Kai. We're all wanting to see this resolved in a hurry. The poor little mite.
Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
I'm gonna be a Gramama!
B, I' sorry I didn't respond about Kai earlier (wrapped up in my own 'me') but once I saw L's suggestion of diabetes I immediately thought of my aunt who is diabetic being put on a low carb/low gluten diet for management. It would make sense. I really am thinking of him and please KUP. He is an amazing little guy and I'm so glad the school,recognizes that.
Boo to Savana's teacher, though. I hope she didn't realize the extent.
Me (38) DH (45) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12
It is always soooo wonderful when we hear other people notice the wonderfulness of our kids isnt it??!
I think I nearly cry at everyone of Ky's parent teacher conferences because they go on so wonderfully about him and I just know what a great boy he is, great person he is and I am always worried that educators won't or don't see it. I feel lucky that his teachers do. They call him the "joy of the class." I tear up everytime I think of it LOL. I probably would have cried hearing those comments about Kai too because just from your descriptions and watching all our kids grow up in a way, I think he is just a wonderful boy and am happy other people notice it.
Elle's teacher thought something was wrong with me when a tear actually fell on the first day I took her and her teachers were speaking about what a sweet, lovely girl she was, so smart and funny, how they didn't even know she was only 3 because she is so intelligent and is just a great kid. And honestly people notice that about Elle usually upon meeting her, she is very....memorable I guess, probably like Kai is. Ky is more reserved and thoughtful and sensitive to others feelings so I worry that he will be ignored or thought to be someone he is not and am always happy to hear that other people see him the way I do.
About Savana's bruise OMG(oodness)! Poor darling!! A situation similar to that happened to a friend of mine's son at Ky's school a couple years ago. He was bruised up. Our principal was appalled and called my friend as soon as it happened and they were very proactive about it and the other kid was severely disciplined and put on a probationary status. They also had an assembly with the whole school about bullying and fighting. They didn't mention the incident but spoke, in general to the kids and parents about things that are just unacceptable in our school and about how we are all a family and should treat each other well, that we may not be kind to each other all the time, but we should never resort to bullying or violence because if one of us is hurt, all of us are hurt and damaged. Since then we haven't had anymore incidents like that. My friend's son was the same age as Savana when it happened, he was in 1st grade as well. I would really want them to have a meeting with the parents of the boy who did that at least. I would also want them to put a policy in place that parents are immediately notified if a child is injured in anyway and that they should provide a valid explanation detailing the facts. So sorry she had to go through that, especially since she has been anxious about school this year. Poor girl.
I hope you can get Kai's health worked out. I feel so horribly for him to be suffering in any way. I hope the doctor you are taking him to can provide you with some answers and solutions.
Erin
Definitely he should be checked for diabetes. Drinking a ton and peeing a lot is a big sign of it. BUT from what I understand type 1 usually strikes very suddenly and they seem very sick very quickly. My best little kid girlfriend is a type 1 and she was about 5 or 6 when dx'd. Went from normal to being on vacation and ending up very sick in the hospital.
It could also just be he's got a small bladder. I did have another school friend who had a small bladder and she had a pass every year that said she could get up and use the bathroom whenever she wanted. She didn't even ask permission, just got up and went and came back.
Honestly I would take him down to Madison and see a pediatric endocrinologist and a pediatric gastroenterologist. And go in with a written detailed account of all the symptoms you have noticed and things you feel aren't quite right.
I'm definitely not anti-natural medicine....but I also haven't had much success with it personally when I tried.
Jennifer, 34, DH 36
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On a small, positive note, Myles got to me so I did a 2-mile walk/run tonight. Even though I felt like I could easily run more, I forced myself to walk a block, run a block. I'm gonna up the running distance as my body gets used to all this activity again.
Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
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Oh, and ErinI absolutely feel the same way you do about watching all our kids kinda grow up together. Yet apart. It's a very unique situation we have here, but the feelings are genuine.
Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
Forgot to mention, I had actually been looking into IPOARM as well. When I did Body for Life before and lost a lot of weight, it was my first introduction to weight training and was a great program, but it is 6 days a week and I don't have that kind of time everyday anymore to dedicate towards working out - on BFL, you don't have to count calories. You just eat 5 meals a day and make sure to always eat a protein and carb at every meal and make sure to eat veggies during 3 of those meals. That is it basically. It was very easy to follow. I decided to try calorie counting to be more scientific and technical, but I am thinking of just going back to the BFL eating plan, it was easy and no need to log stuff or count too much. But I also was thinking of trying the IPOARM. I am taking a break from logging calories though and just making sure I am eating my veggies and enough protein at every meal again and doing some research on different nutrition programs. I like IPOARM and I already know a lot of my caloric needs just from being involved in body building as TDEE, BF%, and BMR goals are commonly mentioned and when I started using LoseIt.com I figured out all of my numbers. But like Suja says, it is hard to do the BF% without the caliper. Years ago I got my BF% tested as well via some sort of volunteer thing in my hometown at a local college for a sports fitness program. It was free and I wanted to see what it was, I had to be submerged in water, it was really interesting. I forget what it was called but they said it was the ONLY way to accurately measure one's lean body mass and body fat due to calipers and charts/calculators not being able to tell anyone their actual precise numbers being that everyone's body composition varies, not by much but it does. I found out that I have more lean body mass/muscle than most women, which was interesting and an answer to why people always think I weigh less than I do and why I am not as fat as most women who weigh what I weigh lol. I probably have those papers somewhere in our junk closet. I may go on an adventure and dig them out to see what it was, but the guy who did the test was surprised at my lean body mass in regards to my weight. I think back then I weighed around 170, which was overweight, but I loved being that weight and people used to think of me as "skinny" then. I didn't have much noticeable fat, except my boobs which have been huge for over 20 years lol.
Erin
Oh and Mandy....Molly is going to be a year in a week. We STILL kennel her when we are both home. It's vital, not just for housebreaking.....but you don't want him to associate the kennel with you guys being not home. At that age Molly sure did protest it....and she was not let out until she was quiet for at least a few seconds straight.....didn't want her to thinking a tantrum was the way to get out.
Now she will pull the door open with her paw and go in there and take a nap if she feels like it.
She goes in there for dinner (us eating, not hers). She goes in at night if I'm home alone and DH is at work (when he's home she sleeps in bed with him....it's their thing I hear). She goes in if she's being out of control and needs a time out (basically won't stop humping cosmo after about three warnings, I'm done and she gets a 15 minute or so time out to calm down).
We did the same with Cosmo. I remember her being 9 or 10 weeks old in the kennel in the living room with us because we were putting up the xmas tree (first one married!) and I didn't want her to get in the way or try to an ornament hook.
Jennifer, 34, DH 36
Erin, my bff has also lost a lot and had success with body for life. She's a big fan. I don't like eating 5 times day though so when I looked it, didn't try it for long.
Jennifer, 34, DH 36
I'm only throwing it out there because L got me thinking about it (I'm much more aware of dog diseases than people diseases), but polyuria/polydipsia can also be caused by Diabetes Insipidus, which cannot be tested for in the same way. Growth issues, skin issues, weight loss, etc. are all symptoms of it, Bridget. I've been meaning to ask you, but Tapir on APA is a pediatrician, and seems like a good one at that. Could you pick her brain about what this might be, and which direction to go, in terms of pursuing treatment?
That's a good suggestion, Bridget.
Me (38) DH (45) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12
I agree to ask Tapir, maybe send her a PM. Maybe she will notice us talking about her lol!
And Jen, I rarely ate 5 meals a day doing BFL. I usually only actually "ate" 3 times a day like I usually do, maybe 4 with a snack. I did drink some protein shakes though to make sure I was meeting my energy needs. Also, you get REALLY hungry on BFL, just like I have been on Strong Lifts, weights make you hungry so it wasn't hard to eat 3-4 times per day and drink a shake in the mid morning or mid afternoon after lunch.
If you get to a place where you want to try it, you should. It is really tailored to your specific fitness level. I will admit though it was hard just starting out. I was really out of shape. After 3-4 weeks though I got a ton of energy and felt like I could do anything. I also lost 65lbs in 12 weeks on it so it was really successful for me. I know most of that was water weight though as that was after I had Elle, but still, I was impressed.
I don't expect that to happen again, but am considering doing another BFL cycle. I like Strong LIfts though as it is a simpler plan and is only 3 days a week instead of 6. But I did BFL in 5 days and just used Saturday as both a weight and cardio day. So I cheated in a way.
There also isn't any counting and such with diet like I mentioned and I like that. I get burned out on calculating things. It follows more of a IIFYMs type of plan (If it fits your macros-basically you are eating sufficient carbs, protein, and fat it doesn't matter if you don't "eat clean" all the time).
They stress to eat lean meats primarily and whole grains but pasta is allowed and white rice and even white bread. You also get a whole "cheat day" to eat what you want. I took advantage of mine nearly every week and it didn't stop me from progressing.
Erin
Last edited by Ky'sMom; 09-19-2012 at 10:04 PM.
So glad to hear about the good things you all hear about your kids. It's really nice to hear something like that. The day Josh's teacher called about the little girl in his class she said, kudos to you because he's wonderful.
For the record, DH is not the only one with a history of arguing with Josh. It just seems like there's no way around it-I have things I need to get done and I need to bring Josh. (especially before he started school. Now it's a little easier if I can get most things done in the middle of the day on my break)
I stopped looking forward to an easier phase when he turned 4. He changed so much for the worse the day he turned 3 that I hoped he would change for the better as quickly when he turned 4. He didn't and I just kind of accepted that he didn't run on a clock and I take each day as it comes now!
I'm sorry if I sound negative about the whole thing. To be honest it's been much more difficult for both me and DH than we ever imagined!
Bridget, poor Savana! I'm glad you brought it to her attention-something like that should go down in writing somewhere. I'm so sad to hear about kindergarten bullying! I never expected it to start this early.
I'm sorry you're still worrying about Kai.
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I didn't think dh was the only one that argued, but you seem to be the only one that really recognizes that might not be working and are willing to try something else.
Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
About the arguing. I'll tell you what worked for me. I realized that I was always trying to rationalize with really irrational people. I also realized I was always trying to give them answer.
"I hate school"
"But you love reading! And you love your friends! You don't hate school"
"I'm not brushing my teeth"
"You will have cavities and stinky breath"
Instead I say things like, "I know that you do not like going to school. I am sorry we have to do things we don't like. I wish we could just lay around and eat grapes all day." and "Ugh! I know! Brushing teeth is so boring sometimes. Maybe when you grow up you can build a robot that will do it for you"
Now this works wonders on Kai. Sometimes kids just want to be heard. That want to feel and say what they want without being told, in one way or another, "too bad for you! Do it anyway!" I know I hate it when I try to vent to dbf and he tries to act like my problems are so simple and easy to fix. It makes me feel small and insignificant.
It's not too late to stop arguing with him. When it starts now I would just say, "I love you too much to argue with you".
Savana's teacher actually returned my email last night and she said she had no idea it was that severe of a situation and the school has zero tolerance. She feels horrible and said normally she in monitering the hallway at this time when kids are finishing lunch and putting their things away to go outside, but that a child needed her attention in a classroom so she turned her back for just a few minutes. (Just another example of the complete bs of understaffed and underpaid public schools) She said she heard screaming and crying in the hallway and came running out "to see Savana's little brother swinging his lunch bag at the boy to get him off Savana". Bless Kai's little heart. That kid was likely twice his size! I didn't even know he was there when it happened.
Anyway, she said she will speak to the principal and address the issue further and help Savana to get past it and realize she is safe at school.
Now. When I can I go back to homeschool? ;)
I'm glad the teacher was at least trying to help! It does stink that there can't be a pair of eyes on each child.
Thanks for the approaches Bridget. I do sometimes say "I'm not arguing with you about this" which may stop the verbal and physical resistance but still doesn't get done what I was trying to do-like he will just sit there in a huff instead of going up to take a shower or get dressed or whatever we asked him to do.
Chrissy, that is true, DH seems either fine with how things are or unaware of how to change it. Maybe a little of both. I don't have much hope of changing his reactions to things but I can change mine and hopefully DH will pick up on some of it.
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Rich & I went a long stretch without ever really arguing. Until the end. Once we started, the girls started too. It could be a coincidence as they were also becoming teenagers, but I can tell you the negativity in that household was magnificent and we weren't doing anything to negate it. It didn't fully hit me how bad it really was till I was out of the house. Now it's peaceful in my house, but all that negativity and arguing is still going on at Rich's. Syd & Jesi had a huge fight on FB this morning. I'm really at a loss how to handle it...it's like that patter was set and getting everyone to switch gears feels like an insurmountable task. Rich isn't doing anything to help matters. His idea of dealing with it is to shout, "KNOCK IT OFF!" at them.
Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
When I was at the airport, waiting to pick up my parents, I was watching a lady with two kids. One was probably 2, the other 3-ish. The older kid was pitching an absolute fit, kicking, screaming, hitting, and after a little bit of time trying to soothe him, she picked him up, swatted him on his butt (over jeans and diaper), and said 'I need you to stop it RIGHT NOW'. It was like someone flipped a switch, and for the next 45 minutes or so that I was there, he was a model child.
No doubt spanking will get the job done. Not my cup of tea, however. Especially not for a 3 year old having a tantrum in an airport waiting lobby. It doesn't get more normal behavior than that.
I don't really argue with kids at all. DH does.
If my kids complain about something I just say "aw, that's too bad." And leave it at that. We don't banter back and forth. But that is something that I have never done so I wouldn't have any ideas about how to stop it once it is already established.
Right now Elle is going through what I call an "excuse" phase. If I tell her to do something. She will say "but...." fill in the blank with some excuse. I just tell her I don't want to hear that and do what I told her to do. We can talk later.
I just try to keep things very short and to the point. She has been doing that a lot lately, making excuses. I am more of a "doer" in a way so I don't like excuses and will tell both the kids and DH that I don't want to hear any excuses. Elle has even spoken back again to me when I told her I don't want to hear an excuse, I tell her to sit on the step, which she will, that is her timeout spot, and when I have her get up I repeat what I originally asked her or informed her of and she doesn't make any more excuses.
Typing it out may seem mean and coldhearted but really, I don't sound angry or anything when I do this. I also don't yell at all at my kids. I just don't want to hear a lot of mess, which is what I tell them after the fact. We can talk about all sorts of things after whatever we need to do gets done. I also don't really care if they ask for something in a store. Elle used to always say, for things she wanted "oh Mommy, I like Snickers bars." It was cute to me, she would go on and on about everything in the store she liked. I would say either "I do too!" or "Really" and just keep on going about my shopping. Sometimes she would ask for it and I'd just say no. But she has never been a child to tantrum a lot. Ky was and so I stopped taking him places and worked around DHs schedule so he didn't have to come with me. When he asked why he couldn't come, I would tell him because he like to scream and misbehave in public and I didn't want to deal with that sort of behavior, plainly, just like that. He stopped tantruming out in public and saved his tantrums for our home lol.
I think in a lot of ways, you just have to not take the kid's conversation so seriously. Also remember that you are the adult and know what's best. Also that it is important that you model calm, rational behavior most of the time and not lose your cool. I feel like if I lose my cool, whatever the kids do is basically my fault, especially with Elle at the age she is. She feeds off my mood in a lot of ways, Ky does still.
And about Ky, I want to put it out there that he was very difficult as a toddler, and preschooler. He got WAY better at 5 years old. He would still cry about bedtime though, but he still gets all sad looking when its time for bed to this day. But he stopped tantruming so much. It used to be every day, at one point, multiple times per day, anytime you asked him to do anything or told him no he would flip out. He was constantly in his room because I cannot take a lot of noise and he wouldn't sit still like Elle will in one spot so I made him go sit in his room, mostly he would just play, so he would not be in my hearing line and I wouldn't give him any attention or try to make it a control war sort of situation. At 5 he just stopped doing all of that. It reall improved though with him in Pre-K but by kindergarten he was pretty calm, just a little high strung, but that is just his personality.
Erin
I sent this to my MIL this morning. Reminds me so much of my Molly at that age with slightly different coloring. And she has said she wants something like my Molly. http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/24086031
Jennifer, 34, DH 36
And Kate, if I were you, I'd just try to focus on your own interactions with Josh. If you change your own patterns with him he will know who he can argue with and who he cannot.
Like I said, I don't argue. DH is forever bantering back and forth with them. He also tries to bring me into the mix in front of them, which I think is horrible and sets a poor standard as he is dividing us in front of them when I feel we should be a united front. So now, I do remind them that I am not the one to argue. I don't want to hear any excuses. I don't want to hear them arguing loudly with each other or trying to bring me into it. They can argue with DH. Honestly, he has gotten better, especially since now when he tries to pull me into his arguments with them (mostly with Ky about homework and mostly with Elle about any and everything, it is pretty hilarious when he argues with her because she is so animated and it is just really immature, the things they are arguing about) I will flat out tell him, he's not pulling me into it. And "remember when I said I'm not arguing anymore with you, this is an example of you trying to pull me into one." He doesn't believe me when we are just having a normal discussion and I tell him that he is argumentative. So I have resolved to letting him know everytime he is trying to start an argument with me. It has really made him both - get upset with me and stop arguing with me so much lol.
In regards to the kids, I feel he has his own unique relationship with them and I don't need to interject how I feel he should be communicating with them unless it is something really far out and that rarely happens. I do speak to him after the fact - which usually is him sending them off for a punishment, about how he could have handled it better and how his behavior was immature. But I don't get involved. If he wants to ruin their relationship, that is on him and I won't have any part in it. I won't let him do anything completely out of line with them - like spank them for arguing with him, which he has tried to do multiple times in the past, but if he just tells them to go to their room, I let them go since everyone needs to cool off anyway as they can get pretty heated.
Erin
What a cutie! Our childhood dog looked just like that. His name was Patches (My 3yo bro named him, he didn't actually have any patches, lol). He was a sweet, calm, mellow dog, put up with lots of rough play from kids, got along with other animals and was really just the perfect dog. .Originally Posted by Cosmosmom
D-Mama (37) D-Dada (43) and D-Baby (11/02/2011)
Huh. I'm trying to think if I argue with Bodhi or not. I guess I'm not much of an arguer either, because when I ask him to do something and he starts to object or try to negotiate, I start counting or telling him to listen faster. He hasn't been asking me "why?" too much yet. At least not while I'm asking him to listen to something I'm telling him to do.
I posted a video in NM that I thought was funny. I was gonna post it in here, but remembered I'm trying to post "out there" to help keep the site active. It's not religious in anyway, but at the end of the video, I realized from the ad that flashed on screen that the source was some sort of a church library. I'm an equal opportunity media distributor!
I don't argue with T. He tries to disagree with me all the time and I just tell him matter of factly that I'm the adult and I make the decisions. LOL. Some times I am so blunt. He had a 20 minute tantrum this morning because he didn't want to wear his sweater to school even though it's 45 degrees here in the morning and only get's to about 55 through the day. DH picked him up and put him on the doorstep and said, "Is it cold out?" So, Travis screamed, "NO!" So, that carried on for another 3 minutes or so until he finally agreed that it was cold and he wanted to come back in to the house. He was in such a bad mood though and was trying to kick and hit the doors and walls, so I carried him to his room and asked him to sit there until he was ready to come back downstairs to start the day in a better mood. He eventually did after a cuddle with his daddy.
Bridget, that's really sweet that Kai stuck up for Savana. I'm glad the teacher is now aware of the situation. I'm sure she'll watch that boy closer now. There is a boy in my class who has been quite mentally abusive to a girl he sits by and I'm watching him and have made the teacher aware of it. Some times being a teacher is so rewarding seeing the sweet side of children, but on the flipside, we often see the very ugly side to kids as well.
Suja/Erin, I'm running my IPOARM numbers right now. What do you guys think...
I don't know if I should classify myself as Lightly Active or Moderately Active. I have a sedentary desk job, but then I do 90 min of hot yoga at least twice a week, run 40-75 minutes 2x a week, also do an hour of some other cardio (spin/elliptical/dance/boot camp) at least 2x/wk , and do core strengthening weight lifting 2x wk. (Plus, I plan to start an almost-daily progressive weight lifting routine on advice of my physical therapist).
In addition to that question , when he says "eat your exercise calories", is that not already figured into the TDEE estimate when you choose between Sedentary/Light/Moderate/Very Active/Extremely Active. If I burn an average of 400 cals on a 4-mile run, do I eat an additional 400 cals (even if I chose Moderately Active?)
Bridget, I'm sorry I missed the post about Kai defending Savana. He's a little hero. Good job, mama!!
LOL Myles, I would put that down is higher than moderately active and say active or very active.
I am lightly active. I do household stuff daily and walk from my desk to my car...about 10 minutes each way. My goal would be to get a 20 minute walk with the dogs or 10-15 minutes on the elliptical a couple of times a week.
Yes exercise is definitely a weak point for me!
Jennifer, 34, DH 36
Ha ha! I know what you're saying. I'm just confused because of the fact that the rest of my life is very sedentary - sitting in a car, at my desk, on a train, etc. I remember seeing on "United Stats of America" that farm-work, for example, burns 3000 cals/dy. That's what I think is classified as "Very Active". An athlete or dancer who trains for 5-8 hrs a day is "Very Active". It's pretty surprising when you think about how modern conveniences have taken the majority of us away from what was once the typical level of activity.
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