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Thread: Secular Confessions

  1. #34981
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    Oh, and totally forgot to mention, but Rotties are at extra risk for Parvo, and he may need an extra booster. Just letting you know, in case the vet isn't aware.

  2. #34982
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    Thanks. It is helpful to have you as a resource!
    Me (39) DH (46) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

  3. #34983
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwenn View Post
    Thanks. It is helpful to have you as a resource!
    Just don't ask me about raising kids. That, I'm fumbling about.

    ETA: I'm certifiable. I had gone to bed, but remembered something and came down to write it down before I forgot. Osteosarcoma is a HUGE problem in the breed (~ 10%, IIRC. It's extremely aggressive with very poor prognosis, even with treatment). The risk increases to something like 25% in dogs that are neutered young, before physical maturity. In your shoes, I'd not alter him until physical maturity, around 2-3 years of age.

    A Rottie is in our future, as I have previously mentioned, and that's my plan for our future dog. It's one of the reasons I'd seek out a responsible breeder instead of going the rescue route, as strong a proponent of rescue as I am. Osteo scares the crap out of me, and I will not take chances with it.
    Last edited by Suja; 09-06-2012 at 11:39 PM.

  4. #34984
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    Also good to know. DH doesn't want him neutered too young. Nero was neutered by the rescue group at 8 weeks and for some reason it bothered DH that N didn't lift his leg to pee. He wants to wait until he's old enough to do that. My only concern is that he doesn't roam. G is spayed so no concerns there.

    I came on to ask you a question about biting. With N and G, when they would play-bite I would hold their jaws together briefly and say no. They both did fine with that strategy. This little guy seems to freak out a little when I do that and he actually escalates the biting until I crate him for a break. How do you suggest I react, since this strategy doesn't seem to work? Crate on the first bite? Squirt bottle? One source online said give him a soft toy to chew but although that's a good replacement behavior, I want him to understand biting people/pets is not tolerated.
    Me (39) DH (46) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

  5. #34985
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    I always thought play biting was fine if the dog has good bite inhibition. Like my parents boys and Molly like to play chew on each others necks when wrestling (Cosmo is too old and refined for that business....she just likes to stand guard and b*tch them out if it gets too much). But no body is getting hurt.

    I totally agree on the puppy classes. The one we did was fantastic and was mostly done off leash. We were told not to worry at that age if they started biting each other....if you hear a yelp that was good because that was how they learned not to go too far and that others will not play with them if they do that.
    We had kids in the class and they asked for especially men....and did some things too like pass the puppy where we got others pupppies and pulled on their ears and feet and touched them all over.

    Molly didn't stop biting me until maybe about 5 months old. Maybe a bit sooner. I loved her but it's hard to like someone who bites you all the time. And the more I tried stuff like holding her mouth closed, tap on the nose, a very firm no bite, point at her and shake my finger....nothing worked. All just made her more feisty. Eventually she got a time out and that calmed her down. I also did yelp like a puppy to work on the bite inhibition too....everytime teeth touched my skin, I yelped and took it away from her. That actually sort of worked.

    One thing I didn't do and wish I did was get Molly out on street corners and busy areas. Our street is quiet and dead end....when we are at gas stations or rest areas when traveling, all she wants to do is bark and EVERYTHING and she doesn't really bark much at all in the house. But it was Jan. when she was the perfect age and we were in classes and in northern WI....that is NOT a time when people are out on the street.

    Jennifer, 35, DH 36

  6. #34986
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    I never knew there was a down side to altering young. But than again I don't like boys lifting legs. My MIL's springer wasn't doing that and so she taught him to lift his leg. He was so excited and proud of that....that he started lifting it so high that he would fall over. LOL He was never fixed as he was used for breeding when younger.

    Think that I will stick to my girls. No doubts there on fixing....no way in heck would I want a female in heat around. Ours were both done around 5 or 5.5 months old.

    Jennifer, 35, DH 36

  7. #34987
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    Missy is a spayed female and has been since she was just old enough to get spayed. She will occasionally lift her leg to pee. Nutty dog.

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  8. #34988

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    LOL at Missy! Mr. Hyde never lifted his leg to pee, just squated like a girl, it was weird as he was not neutered at all.

    Your pup is just adorable Mandy!! I love rots, they are very playful. Bruno reminds me of a rot, as he is that way and reminds me of all the rotweillers I have ever known who grow up and don't seem to understand that they are huge and not little puppies anymore but who still bound about all excited about everything.

    I hope he and Gwennie get along well and that he will help as you all mourn Nero.

    Erin

  9. #34989

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    I've been back pedalling franitcally in this thread because I missed you got a puppy, Mandy! I am so happy for you and he is very, very cute.

    I am reading quiety since I've nothing to add for advice. I love animals but don't know how to train them. Kai really wants a bunny so I'm mildly considering that.

    I also find it strange that no one is talking politics on here. I never contribute to the conversations but they are fun to read. I get enough on fb though I guess.

    The kids are already on their 2nd field trip in the first week of school! Kai is loving it but Savana doesn't. Everything makes her nervous. I emailed her teacher last night and she emailed me back right away and said she has noticed Savana is quiet and nervous and she reminds her a lot of herself when she was a little girl. That was touching to me and gave me some comfort. Savana continues to complain that everything is too loud and too busy and she can't "focustrate" on her work. The teacher did say she can go to the project room to work if she likes. It's right across the hall. I am worried that Savana will get left behind as she is very smart but if she's unsettled and unwilling to participate in large group activities, they won't be able to see her progress.

  10. #34990
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwenn View Post
    I came on to ask you a question about biting. With N and G, when they would play-bite I would hold their jaws together briefly and say no. They both did fine with that strategy. This little guy seems to freak out a little when I do that and he actually escalates the biting until I crate him for a break. How do you suggest I react, since this strategy doesn't seem to work? Crate on the first bite? Squirt bottle? One source online said give him a soft toy to chew but although that's a good replacement behavior, I want him to understand biting people/pets is not tolerated.
    Mandy, I'm not surprised by that. Mouths are how puppies explore their world, and because he is a singleton and hasn't had any siblings around to set limits, he doesn't really know anything about interacting appropriately using his mouth. This is a really, really good primer on how to deal with puppy nipping: http://www.ddfl.org/sites/default/files/pup-nip.pdf (They have *excellent* advice on puppy issues in general). This article, which derives from Dunbar, talks in great detail about teaching bite inhibition, which would be incredibly important for your pup, especially with having to live with a baby in the future: http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/te...inhibition.pdf.

    In general, I am not inclined towards using physical corrections, especially in potentially large, powerful dogs. If my dogs decide to kick my ass, I know they can. The trick is to make sure that they know to never even try.

    Jennifer, the reason you stated is exactly why I would get a male dog, but not female, actually. In certain breeds like Rottweilers (FCRs is another), early spay/neuter more than doubles the already high risk of osteosarcoma, which is a death sentence, and I would not alter the dog of either gender, until 2 or 3 years old. This becomes more complicated with females, because I also don't want to deal with their cycles, and leaving them intact longer increases the probability of mammary cancer. In males, intact dogs are more prone to testicular cancer, but that's pretty much solved by removing the 'nads (either when they're young adults or when they develop symptoms).
    Last edited by Suja; 09-07-2012 at 09:22 AM.

  11. #34991
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    I really like Dunbar. I was doing all sorts of wrong things with the biting but the trainers in our class are big fans of his and that handout is exactly what they told us to do. It worked a whole lot better than what I was doing before! I think Molly was a bit on the older side when we started classes just because of when the next session started she was several weeks older than most of the classmates.

    I wonder how mixing breeds changes risks of things? I know some like to claim that it's so much healthier but I don't buy that. But I also think that in some breeds it might help if they have been bred improperly and too close to relatives like some show dogs. Genetics was never my strong suit.
    Every dog I know just about is mixed except my MIL's springer which is show stock....and he's the least healthy and is a disaster health wise. I honestly cannot believe that he's still alive and almost 14 yrs old.

    Jennifer, 35, DH 36

  12. #34992
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmosmom View Post
    I wonder how mixing breeds changes risks of things? I know some like to claim that it's so much healthier but I don't buy that. But I also think that in some breeds it might help if they have been bred improperly and too close to relatives like some show dogs. Genetics was never my strong suit.
    Every dog I know just about is mixed except my MIL's springer which is show stock....and he's the least healthy and is a disaster health wise. I honestly cannot believe that he's still alive and almost 14 yrs old.
    Hybrid vigor, as it applies to dogs, is a myth. First of all, mixing different breeds of dogs does not create a hybrid, really. That requires mixing different species (like horse x donkey to create a mule). The genetics does not bear it out either, and part of the reason for that is that many breeds share diseases that can be inherited. So, you could be doubling down on some bad genes. And if the particular disease is the result of a dominant gene (I'm oversimplifying a little), then you could be introducing a disease that one or the other breed is not prone to. For instance, say someone breeds a Rottweiler with a Bulldog. Rottweilers have a high incidence of Elbow Dysplasia (nearly 40% of the tested dogs are affected, and these are from responsible breeders that do test, so the incidence in the general population is likely higher). Nearly 36% of all Bulldogs are affected too, so that particular mix does not do anything to lower the probability of producing puppies that will go on to have Elbow Dysplasia. Additionally, nearly 72% of Bulldogs have Hip Dysplasia, so while only 20% of Rotties have it as well, a mix of the two will have a higher probability of Hip Dysplasia than a purebred Rottie. That's just one example, off the top of my head (I used the stats from OFA). I did a quick look-up on Cocker x Poodle, and these are the diseases they have in common: hip dysplasia, progressive retinal atrophy, epilepsy, poor temperaments, allergies, skin and ear problem, Legg-Calve-Perthe's, luxating patellas, hypothyroidism, cryptorchidism, and gastric torsion (all of which have been shown to have some basis in genetics, although some have other contributing factors as well).

    Now, the question is whether mixes like this are more healthy than a purebred dog, and the answer to that would be 'It depends'. There is likely not a significant probabilistic difference in how healthy your dog would be, if you're comparing a random bred mix breed dog (I don't know of any breeders of mixed breed dogs that do health testing on the sire and dam, keep track of the genetics of the family behind the sire and dam, do pedigree analysis, etc.) and a random bred purebred dog (someone with two dogs of the same breed that also do not health test, have sire/dam from health tested stock, etc.). There would be a difference between a random mixed breed dog and a well bred purebred dog. If the breeder is doing it correctly, the breeding would minimize the probability of the health problems prevalent in the breed in the puppies, and as a consequence, your probability of getting a pup with the most prevalent problems in the breed is lowered. This does not mean that you can guarantee anything, just that probabilistically, your odds are a lot better of having a healthy, long-lived pup.

    I should've just posted this link: http://home.comcast.net/~NoPuppyMill...rid_vigor.html

    My Khan is a mix of German Shepherd and Malamute (we think). We have easily spent 5 figures for his various medications and treatments (he is hypothyroid, has Cushing's, cancer, etc.).
    Last edited by Suja; 09-07-2012 at 10:17 AM.

  13. #34993
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    Oh I know my Molly didn't have any testing of parents as she was an accident. Cosmos I think did do testing but that was a long time ago so I don't recall for sure. She's been really healthy until the two seizures but at least that medication is cheap and has kept her seizure free for two years. And her eyes....scleritis but that was an immune system thing and while most common in collies, cockers and poodles (a few others), still not that common. Thankfully her eye drops are really cheap as well and the prednisone works so well.

    My MILs springer sounds like your Khan...he's hypothyroid, has lots of allergies, colitis, bad seizures even while on seizure meds, and major ear infections even with keeping them clean and dry....one was so bad that they almost removed his inside of his ear and that was only one drug that finally cleared it up. He runs some big vet bills.

    Whereas Cosmo, really usually her big vet bill is yearly bloodwork and teeth cleaning....we brush her teeth but she is really prone to tartar especially on one side.

    I kind of had the feeling that hybrid vigor was BS. genetics is so complicated. same way I don't believe that the doodles are non-shedding. I have two non-shedding cockapoos....and than I got cosmo and she sheds....she got the poodle body shape but the spaniel coat (mostly, gets a few curls in a few spots). And we did meet both her parents twice. Some of her siblings had the more curly coats and I thought I was going to get one of those based on pictures but I fell in love with her when I first held her. And Molly, same thing, she definitely sheds...more than Cosmo and I met both her parents. Both had poodle dads.
    Oh and they try to say that they are "hypoallergenic".....my BFF has dog allergies and she's always reacted to Cosmo.

    Jennifer, 35, DH 36

  14. #34994
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
    I've been back pedalling franitcally in this thread because I missed you got a puppy, Mandy! I am so happy for you and he is very, very cute.

    I am reading quiety since I've nothing to add for advice. I love animals but don't know how to train them. Kai really wants a bunny so I'm mildly considering that.

    I also find it strange that no one is talking politics on here. I never contribute to the conversations but they are fun to read. I get enough on fb though I guess.

    The kids are already on their 2nd field trip in the first week of school! Kai is loving it but Savana doesn't. Everything makes her nervous. I emailed her teacher last night and she emailed me back right away and said she has noticed Savana is quiet and nervous and she reminds her a lot of herself when she was a little girl. That was touching to me and gave me some comfort. Savana continues to complain that everything is too loud and too busy and she can't "focustrate" on her work. The teacher did say she can go to the project room to work if she likes. It's right across the hall. I am worried that Savana will get left behind as she is very smart but if she's unsettled and unwilling to participate in large group activities, they won't be able to see her progress.
    Does the school have teaching assistants, Bridget? In my new job, a big part of my day is working with kids to make sure no one gets left behind and the teachers and staff are always discussing children and their behaviors how to include them, what's best for them to do in certain lessons, etc.

    MTA: I've been a lurker on here lately, too, due to work. Mandy, your new pup looks adorable!

  15. #34995
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    So, Mira's first swim class is tomorrow, and AF rears its ugly head today. It's not due until next week. UGH! I hate tampons.

  16. #34996
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    Ugh, Suja. That's no good. I was thinking we might take our two heathens swimming tomorrow morning, but AF is due, so I don't want to go if that happens. And I need to shave my legs.

  17. #34997

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    Me too, Suja! I swear, i get a headache every time I put one in.

    I don't think there are teaching assistants but that is something I will find out.

  18. #34998
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    Suja that sucks! I avoid them too....don't even own any. Usually with a 2 or 2.5 day cycle, easy enough to avoid the pool.

    I really want to do swim classes with the baby though....first I will need to buy a swimming suit. I used to keep mine at my parents 5 hours away because they had a hot tub but they got rid of it this year. And the suit is very old and kind of too small so not really decent for public.

    I miss swimming though....if I ever won the lottery I would put in indoor pool in my backyard (it's big enough).

    Jennifer, 35, DH 36

  19. #34999
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    ****TMI****At 31 years old, I have only just started using tampons in the last year and I think they are brilliant for cleanliness, but I do hate putting them in!

  20. #35000
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmeriBrit View Post
    ****TMI****At 31 years old, I have only just started using tampons in the last year and I think they are brilliant for cleanliness, but I do hate putting them in!
    I'm 10 years older, and this is the first time I'm actually using one. I've attempted to put one in before (long story, but AF came when I was unprepared, and my friend only had a tampon I could borrow), but that was strictly comic relief.

  21. #35001

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    I hate tampons. They...don't work for me. IDK if I'm putting them in wrong or what. But I think I've only worn them a handful of times in my life.

  22. #35002
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    Wish me luck, folks! I just read the instructions, and it sounds like I'd have better luck with brain surgery.

  23. #35003

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    Write a funny post like the leg waxing one, when you're done.

  24. #35004

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    Mandy, the puppy is so cute! I hope Gwennie adjusts to her new brother okay.

    I hate tampons too, I didn't start using them until early 20's. I just ordered a Diva cup. I can see it's going to take some to get used to that thing. I am not even sure how to install it. I can be such a airhead with things like that.
    Shelley-mom to DS, 5

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    Quote Originally Posted by raspberry View Post
    Mandy, the puppy is so cute! I hope Gwennie adjusts to her new brother okay.

    I hate tampons too, I didn't start using them until early 20's. I just ordered a Diva cup. I can see it's going to take some to get used to that thing. I am not even sure how to install it. I can be such a airhead with things like that.
    OMG-that's funny! "install it" ??!!! lmao!!!

    I've never had issues with tampons. I got my first box with my first period and just read the directions. My one daughter says she cannot get them inserted so that they feel comfortable though, so maybe they're simply not made for everybody.

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


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    I've started a trial run. That was umm... messy. I just hope it works, 'cause I don't know what I'd do otherwise. I just can't remember what I've done before, under similar circumstances.

  27. #35007
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    I don't have issues with them now, but I did when I was younger. There were times I got it in the wrong place somehow and couldn't wear one for the rest of the cycle because it just wasn't comfortable.

    The Diva cup? I love the idea, but that thing intimidates me!
    Me (39) DH (46) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

  28. #35008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
    Me too, Suja! I swear, i get a headache every time I put one in.

    I don't think there are teaching assistants but that is something I will find out.
    I had to stop reading from the bottom up and start reading from the top down because I seriously wondered if you were asking for a teaching assistant for tampon application. Then I thought I could PM you if you really needed help, but if there were this many people maybe we should start a thread in Random or something.


  29. #35009
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    L!!!!

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  30. #35010
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    Bwahahahahahahaha!!!
    Me (39) DH (46) & furbabies * m/c 7/08 4/12 11/12

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