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Thread: Secular Confessions

  1. #34831
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    Conner told me that his grandma (my mother) told him about God. He asked me who Jesus was. When he said "Earma told me all about God" I just started laughing and said, "Oh, she did, did she?" and I asked him what she'd said but he instead asked me who Jesus was. I only told him that he was a guy that lived roughly 2,000 years ago (not quite as long ago as dinosaurs) and he preached about being good and generous to the the poor. That seemed to satisfy him so I let the subject drop.

    Yesterday was her last day babysitting him so I'm not going to bring it up. If she had started this last year, we would have had a problem. Gee mother, thanks!

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  2. #34832
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    DH was telling our kids about religion the other day, and how some grown-ups believe in fairy tales because it helps them feel better about things they don't understand. They got out of the car saying "WE don't believe in God because WE can live with uncertainty and WE can test hypotheses." Gulp. Luckily I'm around them a lot more and can temper this a bit. This started because they were asking why one of our friends goes to church and we don't.

    This followed our trip to Fairyland, and me answering their question about why no adults were allowed in without kids and doing a bit of explaining about how some adults do not always have the best intentions toward kids. And that led to a conversation about jails, and DS said if he was in jail all the time he would just feel like running into the walls over and over again to try to hurt himself. So I told them that some people do that, and there are padded cells. DH gently chided me for telling them about padded cells and child abduction, but I think they're far more likely to get in trouble for blurting out that God talk I mentioned above.

    Just like I asked him to stop having DS exclaim how Prius drivers are terrible and how the Prius is the slowest car on the road. Especially around here.

    DH and I have some opposing viewpoints on what should be shared with kids. I feel like it's okay to say just about anything as long as it's presented factually and in age-appropriate language. I do not like to present them with sweeping generalizations, especially when there is a judgment (ie Prius drivers are bad drivers, people who go to church lack the basic understanding of the scientific method, grandparents can't understand technology). DH likes to avoid some topics altogether, and thinks we should instill some values and share opinions with them.

    Speaking of Jesus, I was talking to my mom about kindergarten the other day. We do a direct hand-off before and after school with our kids now. They line up before school and then the teacher comes out and gets them. We cannot leave until the teacher comes, and we have to be there, because the line is well inside the school grounds. After school, the teacher brings them outside one by one and releases them as she sees each parent or caregiver. When I was little, I walked half a mile approximately to and from kindergarten by myself, including crossing streets with and without lights. I just checked this with my mom, and this is where my Jesus story comes into play.

    Apparently I did really well for the most part. I went to school and came home. I do remember one time pooping in my pants because I just couldn't hold it on the walk on the way home, and I also remember touching a pile of vomit because I couldn't tell what it was until I touched it. Someone once offered me a ride, and although I didn't know him, I got in his car and he drove me home. That probably could have ended up very badly, and I remember thinking at the time that I shouldn't do it, that I had been told not to do this, but it was okay because he didn't offer me candy. I guess he must have known who I was or my parents, though. One time, though, I did not show up to class. I was eventually found in some other building nearby, and when questioned, I told my mom that Jesus made me do it. She said, "What?!?!" because we were not a religious nor a church-going family, and I elaborated, "Jesus makes everyone do everything, Mom."


  3. #34833
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    Oh L!!! I would have had a heart attack about the hitchhike home and a stroke about jesus making you go into a building, rather than school. For me, that would have made me instantly freak out internally and wonder if you'd gotten the crazy gene that's in my family.

    I do wonder if mom's sudden preoccupation with Jesus isn't related to the stress of 'losing' Conner. This is going to be so hard for her emotionally. I'm afraid of how bad she might get.

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  4. #34834
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    I am pretty sure my mom did not know about the hitch-hiking. Maybe she did. For all I know the guy went in and told her about it and I got a lecture, but I don't remember that part of it. I did not remember Jesus making me go into another building. That was my mom's story. I also had to verify with her to make sure I really was walking to school on my own when I was five, and it really was as far away as I remembered.

    I have picked up hitch-hikers as a teenager girl driver, while alone, too. Mostly cute guys, though, some of whom I ended up dating. And I mean that in the actual sense, not the hooker sense. Like dinner, movie, etc.

    I have a lot of memories from kindergarten, and each year is pretty distinct because I was living in a different place each year, at a different school, with different friends and different places to go, so it's not like the years were maybe blending together.

    I hope your mom is okay, Chrissy, and you. And Bridget. And your kids. This time of year is such a tough time for everyone. I had no idea before I had school-age kids.


  5. #34835
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    Mom is going to be with me & Rich when Conner gets on the bus for the first time. I told her to bring tissues. I didn't really worry about her psychological health beyond the empty nest emotions most moms and long-term daycare providers experience until the whole Jesus conversation came up. Historically, whenever my mother would begin a psychotic episode she'd get seriously religious. I'll never not look at that as a warning sign, even though it's been 25 years (or more?) since she had a psychotic episode. They were the foundation of my childhood and I can't help but worry. Other than Conner saying grandma (ear-ma) told him all about God, I haven't myself seen any other signs. I hope I'm being paranoid for no reason.

    eta: I have to take that back. She mentioned she had to meet with the supervisor at mental health last week. She's suddenly pissed off at her nurse practitioner. Another sign she's not doing well. Intellectually, I realize she can have a rough period without it getting to the point where she's hallucinating and smashing everything in the house. But I will always worry about it. It would break my heart.
    Last edited by missychrissy; 09-01-2012 at 03:40 PM.

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  6. #34836

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    I don't think Breaking Bad is on streaming but I would still definitely recommend it. It's such a great show!! This is it's last season and I will miss it. Although I see that the last installment isn't until summer 2013. Now dh has found two new shows that we quite like. Hell on Wheels-which is set in 1860's, and the start of the railroad in the US. It's also another AMC show. The other one is on BBC America it's called Copper. It's like CSI, only it's 1860 NYC. That seems to be the theme-the 1860's. Not sure why, but they are well written and so far seem pretty good. But I said to dh all our shows are so dark and can be depressing. We are lacking in the funny tv shows. So I set tivo to record Big Bang Theory, so at least we can laugh a little before bedtime.

    Today we spent 4 hours at the pool and I am completely wiped out. That much sun gives me a headache.

    G is starting school on Tuesday as well. Good luck to all the kiddos starting school this week!!

    Anyone have fun plans for Labor Day? We don't have any plans. We may spend more time at the pool.
    Shelley-mom to DS, 5

  7. #34837
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    No plans here. I didn't even realize we had Monday off till I was asked about it at work. If that person didn't say something, I would have been at the bus stop wondering where everyone was.

    I'm thinking about going out with my cousin tonight. I don't have any kids. Take that, Richard. Actually, since the whole K orientation thing we've been getting along a lot better. He agreed with me that it was very nice. He said he's going to get help and he's going to do it for him. For his sake, I hope he does. I don't know if that would mean we'd ever get back together, but he's a great guy (when he's not drinking) and deserves happiness. I want that for him.

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  8. #34838
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    I've heard great things about Breaking Bad as well, but haven't seen a single episode. I'm really not that good at following stuff that needs to be watched on a regular basis, with the exception of The Amazing Race and Project Runway. We have started watching some Mad Men, and it is excellent, much better than I thought it would be.

    L, I'm totally teaching Mira to chant "WE don't believe in God because WE can live with uncertainty and WE can test hypotheses." when she is old enough to say the words properly.

    I think that I forgot to mention, but Mira's open house was yesterday, and she got to meet her new teacher and check out the new classroom. It will likely be a traumatic few weeks, but I think she might surprise me on the upside. She was thrilled with all the new work, and we spent about an hour in the class with her picking up a bunch of things to do - mostly shapes/puzzles, and some sequencing, and she was responsive to her teacher and took directions from her well. The way the class is organized, they have a section that is geography related, one that's shapes/puzzles, another that is math related (apparently they start counting by 10 too, and it is supposed to make it easier to count to 100 and beyond), another that is alphabet/word related, and then some stuff that I didn't get around to looking at that the teacher said is probably too advanced for her crowd, but she'd like to see how they take to it anyway. While I'm about 100% sure she'll pitch a fit on Tuesday if I leave, I think that she will in fact settle down and get to work, and won't spend the majority of the time looking for me.

    We met a friend for lunch at a Thai place today, and I think that the four of us (she has a 5 year old son) will probably be blacklisted. This place was huge, mostly empty, and the kids were having a ball just running back and forth. Mira had taken a muffin with her apparently, and it looked like Hansel and Gretel had passed through, before any of us realized what she was doing. I did attempt to clean up, and tipped heavily, so that hopefully makes up for the rowdy kids. Then we went to the pool, and spent 2 hours there. I really need to make sure that I do my pre-swimwear grooming out of the kid's eyesight, lest I be asked again 'Mommy, are you shaving your bum?' (NO, I was not shaving my bum). Then we went to my friend's house and spent 3 hours there, with the kids tearing around with each other, and Mira passed out on the way home. I have no idea what we're doing tomorrow. It's supposed to be a nice, pleasant day, so likely not a great day to be in the water.

    I had ordered a bunch of books, some in the 'good fiction' category and some in the 'forensic nonsense' category, and had promised myself that I'll just stick my hand in the box and read whatever my hand lands on. Aravind Adiga's The White Tiger is up next. This explains why I haven't read anything in two whole days. I could procrastinate further by reading The Hunger Games instead, I suppose.

  9. #34839
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    L, that is so funny about the twins and their scientific hypothesis. That sounds like something I'd teach Travis to say. He has surprisingly not ever mentioned god. He has asked me why his grandparents go to church (his grandad is actually an atheist but goes to services with gran so that she has someone to sit next to! Even funnier, they love him at church because he can sing.) When Travis asked me why they go, I told him to sing songs, so he thinks church is for singing.

    Tomorrow is my first day of work and Cash's first full day at daycare. Travis starts full time school on Tuesday. I'm ready for it all to happen so that I can stop feeling so anxious about it all. I keep having moments of feeling really sad that i'm not going to be a stay at home mom anymore, but I have to keep reminding myself that it's progress. And it will be good for everyone.

  10. #34840
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    Agh, you guys, that was not supposed to be a cute story, that was supposed to be me venting about my DH teaching my kids to say something not likely to win them friends. I have been letting them know that people around the world believe all kinds of things, and religions often teach people a code of behavior and have stories associated with how the world was created, and some think that their way is the only right way. I have asked them to consider how it can be possible for them all to be right. I tell them that these beliefs are very important to people, so much that wars have been fought over them, and they should be respectful.

    DD has realized that DH will let her do just about anything if she tells him she is testing a hypothesis. I'm not sure if he has realized this, but it's hilarious to watch. She will be told to brush her teeth, but instead she's lying on her back, playing with a string. DH asks her why she's not brushing her teeth, and she says, "Oh, I will in a minute, but right now I'm testing a hypothesis." DH gets this smile on his face and just lets her be. As long as she uses this infrequently, it will be fine.

    I never know what they will remember or repeat. I have been sad about a co-worker who was diagnosed with lung cancer and is probably going to die soon, and was telling them about her after one of DH's colleagues died. They keep talking about her, and asking if they can come by work to meet the lady who will die soon. So obviously I can't bring them by work for a visit at all any more.

    The really cute stories have been coming from S. I wish I had been writing down what he was saying. One day he was yelling and yelling and yelling at me and I finally just took a deep breath and blew it out at him, ruffling his hair. He looked surprised, stopped yelling, then said, "Don't blow me, I'm not a dandelion!" I told a couple of people that cute story in front of him, so he has taken that theme and run with it. The other day I lifted up his shirt and gave him a little nibble on his tummy, and he said, "Don't eat me! I'm not a hot dog!" He's done about four other ones and for the life of me I cannot remember what they are, but they were clever and adorable.

    He's got a substitute teacher at school, this second week of him starting, and she stopped me the other day when I went to pick him up. She said, "Are you his mother?" I said yes, wondering what was coming next, and she said she just wanted to tell me how precious he was. He really does thrive in a group environment, where he is apparently being affectionate and adorable and sharing and confident and exhibiting none of his yelling and supreme willfulness.

    Ash, everything is going to go great for you! I know it will be a bit of an adjustment, but you seem to have the most important things under control, like a plan and optimism and flexibility. Good luck next week!


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    Ash, I hate that they were rude to you! Women can be so strange. I'm sure after awhile they will warm up to you, even against their will.

    I have had some really uncomfortable moments regarding my kids and our non-belief in God. But I think it has made me stronger.
    Lately we have been reading a lot about slavery and civil rights. My kids are really stuck on the whole subject right now. We've listened to the autobiography of Mahalia Jackson and Abraham Lincoln on audio book several times during our car ride. And the story they keep wanting me to read is about generations of african american quilt makers that started with the women making quilts that were actually maps that would show the slaves where to go when they left in the middle of the night to escape. So when I call Savana and Kai in to eat they're like, "Mom, pretend we are slave children and Abraham Lincoln has just freed us and you are the nice white woman who feeds us and lets us sleepover until we find our mom. Not sure how well that whole play scenario will go over at school...

    Btw, for those of you who do audio books with your kids, the Young Patriot Series is so cool. We've heard audiobiographies of the above as well as Amelia Ehrhart and the woman who started the girl scouts and her name escapes me. Anyway, the stories are very captivating and cover so many aspects of the era. We are loving them for car rides.

    I love the S stories. I can't wait until Sawyer starts talking more.

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    When my sister and I were older than your kids were, Bridget, and we first moved to Eastern Idaho, my parents got us a couple of retired circus ponies and we'd spend all day roaming around on them. We had read a lot of historical non-fiction for kids, biographies, and we did a lot of pretending that we were cowboys or Laura Ingalls or pioneers. Apparently the main time we shocked my mom was when we told her we'd straggled over the Donner Summit after having suffered loss of our party, infection, hardship, and cannibalism, and that we were so happy to see civilization and food again.

    We cannot listen to anything in the car, thanks mostly to S. He is so loud.


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    Lol! You as a child would have gotten along great with my kids! When I put food in front of them they are like, "Warm waffles?? All we got from our master was lumps of cold hard lard." I said do you even know what lard is? And they said "Yes! Whale blubber!" lol So I forgot to mention we also listened to the story of Sacagawea so we are getting the details all mixed together.
    Savana keeps thinking everyone in the world is trying to stop her from doing what she really wants because she is a girl so dbf and I keep having to remind her that Amelia Ehrhart and Juliette Low (girl scouts founder) lived a long time ago and that no one is telling her she can't climb trees or wear pants. She's been incorporating a southern drawl into her life as well, since all of these women seem to come from the south.

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    Bridget, I don't think I've said this, but I love your approach towards educating your kids. I don't read much by the way of non-fiction, and this is a reminder that it's important for kids to learn about the lives of real people too.

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    Thanks, Suja I take those sorts of compliments to heart and it means a lot to me. Actually, I don't read much non-fiction either and I'm learning quite a bit from these audio stories about people that I didn't learn a whole lot about in my school days.

  16. #34846

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    Dbf's new job gave him an ipad. So now he can be on the computer all the time. Even when he's "playing" with the kids in the yard. Even when him and I are on the deck having a beer after the kids go to bed. EVEN play video games if he wants to.

    Joy.

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    It is exceedingly addictive, Bridget. You guys may need to come to some sort of agreement on appropriate use.

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    Ugh Bridget, I remember you having concerns about him having one for just that reason. I hope the new wears off really fast.

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  19. #34849

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    The whole reason we both avoided getting internet access on our phones was so when we were away from our computers we were away and the temptations to jump online wouldn't be there. And so now I'm scratching my head once again wondering what happened to that conversation we had.

  20. #34850
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    Aw, that sucks. Bridget, you should totally get on the computer in the house and send him periodic emails while he's out in the back yard playing with the kids, saying, "Why are you reading this when you are playing with the kids?" No, way too passive-aggressive. Unless he's getting on-call pay during those times and he has to check and respond to emails, you should talk to him again about being in the moment and attentive. I have gotten the impression that even without the phone, though, that's been a problem sometimes.

    I have to say, sometimes DH is checking his email or looking at his phone when I'm talking to him and it drives me batty. I ask him about it all the time, and he says he's capable of multi-tasking in a life of little time. I tell him whether or not he is listening, it feels like he is not.

    My weekend was mostly annoying broken up with brief periods of family activities and fun. It felt like I had a ton of work and chores to do, and I never got caught up, and I was still sick and sleep-deprived and had a headache that I couldn't get under control that had been lasting for about 8 days. Today is the first day it's been manageable for more than a week, but last night was also the first night I got enough sleep in a while. I brought a bunch of work home with me, that I scrambled to get done while S. was napping, and DH took the twins out in the afternoons.

    In the mornings, DH slept four hours later than I did on Sat. and three hours later than I did on Sunday. I realized yesterday that he'd essentially had more than one whole night's sleep extra than I did in the past two days, and his sleeping in was making it so we couldn't do much together before naptime. We do go on a pedal boat ride on a lake yesterday (I was in the boat with Claire and S, and they did not pedal very much, needless to say), and today I asked him to get up early so we could go for a hike, and I feel SO much better. I don't know if it's getting outside and exercising, just being together as a group, or the extra sleep, or not having a headache for the first time in 8 days, but it's so nice. I managed to get a lot more of my work done during naptime, and my attitude is greatly improved.

    I made super-yummy chili verde super nachos the other day.

    DD says, "I'm so glad school is starting again tomorrow! I can't wait to go!"


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    Im glad your headache went away & you are feeling better. I don't know how you cope with one lasting that long. When I get them, I find they're debilitating. i'd be out of my mind if I had one go on that long.

    I'm super depressed. I think it's a combination of Conner starting school, and then having such a nice time with Rich at Conner's K orientation. Between how awesome that was and knowing how much easier things would be financially if Rich & I were still together, I'm having some serious sad moments about how things are. I'm not thinking of trying to make it work, but it sure does suck. Right now. I know it's just a phase but that's how I feel right now. AF is making it all worse too. She hasn't visited since March. I didn't miss the b!tch.

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


  22. #34852

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    Big hugs, Chrissy. I am also feeling really anxious about school tomorrow. But hopeful too. Savana showed a glimmer of excitement today when she told me she was really scared about school but there was a tiny part of her that was curious and excited too. I told her I felt just the same except that the curious and excited part was the bigger part. She asked me if it was weird to be scared and excited at the same time and I told her that I have felt that way every single time I do something for the first time. I think I am more worried for Kai. He's never been away from me. I just hope I'm strong enough not to cry if they do.

    Chrissy, don't let AF get the best of you. I know you know how strong you are.

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    Conner is really very excited. I'm happy for him, I really am. But you know how it is. I'm sad at the same time. It just won't ever be the same. I'm hoping I can wait till his bus is out of sight before I start crying. My mom too. She cries easier than I do. I don't think there's any hope of her holding back till he's gone. But I can't very well exclude her either.

    I think AF's timing is just perfect to make my sad feelings more intense. It's not overwhelming by any means, but just unpleasant. She should be going away soon. I hope.

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


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    Hope all the kids have a great time in school, and the mamas do okay as well. I've been talking up the new class to Mira; let's hope that she closes the door on me like she used to.

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    We've been talking about how great school is going to be here too. He really is very excited and I am happy for his sake. I have no doubt he'll have a great time. Maybe part of my issue is knowing hes the last one for me. Not that it was ever easy, but this is it for me.

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    It's very quiet in here. Are all the mamas doing okay with their kiddos in school? When do they get home?

    I spent some time hanging out in Mira's classroom. There was one little girl that had never been to any kind of school/daycare before who was having a meltdown and ended up vomiting, and several others that were kind of sad and out of sorts. Some of the kids knew me from the toddler room, so I spent some time with them (so the teacher and the assistant were free to help the more traumatized ones), just reading and sitting with them. Mira just didn't want to paticipate, opting to kind of hang back and observe and read with me, but the kids were making a choo-choo train to go to the playground, and while she initially told me she didn't want to go, she ended up not only going, but waving goodbye. I left after that, and I really hope that she did okay after she returned and found me gone.

    There is one Korean boy who has only been in the country for 4 months and doesn't speak much English. His mom was there, and I assured her that he will do fine, will likely be speaking like all the other kids in a couple of months.

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    I think I have more than AF going on. I'm sick and icky. I opted to stay home with Conner for his last day of freedom (he starts Wednesday). I didn't sleep till 4:00 a.m. & then slept through my alarm and woke to my boss calling me. Ugh. This is the 2nd time I've done this. I'm really going to need to go to a sleep clinic or something if this keeps up. If I try to take even mild over the counter sleeping pill the night before, I can't wake up. But twice now I've stayed awake all night and still slept through the alarm. At least when it's sleeping pill induced, I do wake up and have only been 1 hour late. Ugh ugh ugh.

    I'm trying to enjoy my time with Conner and not worry about it but I'm really getting upset with myself. Emotionally, I feel better than I have in a very long time. I don't know why I'm suddenly now having such a horrible time sleeping. I've always had issues, but never this bad. I've always been able to get up & go to work.

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


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    Darnit, Chrissy that really sucks. I wish I could offer you some advice but my problem is the opposite. I can hardly stay awake past 8pm.

    I am doing ok today. Just really, really hoping that Savana and Kai are doing well. I think Kai was more excited than he was willing to admit because he likes to follow Savana' lead and she was playing unexcited. They both clung to me pretty hard when it was time to say goodbye. I dropped them in the Community Room where the whole school meets every morning. A girl have had in my daycare for 3 years (and whom will ride with us starting tomorrow) waved them down right away and that helped a lot. When I turned to walk out the door my eyes were welling up and one of the staff touched my arm and said I was welcome to stand outside the room for a bit to watch and make sure they were okay. She said parents are as welcome as students and there is no need to rush out. I really appreciated that since at the other schoool it was discouraged. Parents were basically not allowed past a certain point. So I watched for a bit and they both seemed to be doing ok but certainly clinging to each other. I hope they were able to part paths ok and that they get to see one another during the day.

    It's crazy here without them. And dbf is home today too. It's just plain strange. I have cleaned every room and washed all my floors and it's only 1pm.

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    I'm glad they encouraged you to hang out. They're only little once. I don't think it does a school any favors to try and forcefully separate children from their parents. That's the stuff that can make/break their entire attitude about school altogether.

    We've opted to have Conner get on the bus the first day. I think it'll be easier for him. There will be other little kids that are new, and if we took him his first day, he'd have to relive all the first day jitters when he got on the bus eventually anyway. Having one of us drive him to school every day simply isn't an option at all.

    Mama to Bobbie 20 ~ Jesi 18 ~ Syd 14 ~ Conner 6
    I'm gonna be a Gramama! Jesi is due 11/22/13


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    Hey guys..I think I'm ready to come back. I think I just had to get myself out of the habit of checking all the forums all the time. It was eating up too much of my time. Now I'm just going to check into this little bubble, like most of you already do ;)
    Big hugs to everyone sending their kids off to school. Josh starts on Monday and I've got a little heartache about it. I think the experience will be great for Josh and I know he's ready but it's scary knowing that I won't be his biggest influence anymore. As much as I can try to be, I know that he'll be spending so much more time at school that he'll take a lot away from it, good and bad.

    On a happier note, I got the UU church school curriculum in the mail and his class (K and 1st grade) will be learning about the lessons in the Dr. Seuss books. I'm so excited about that especially since he recently saw and read The Lorax and he was quite disgruntled that the book didn't end like the movie. (the new one) I hope he gets to bring that up with his teachers. LOL

    I got elected to the religious education committee at church which oversees all the church school classes and activities involving the children. I'm excited to get involved in that. I also went back to my bus monitoring job today. For now we only have 2 kids (the two that don't get along) but I think it'll be fine since we don't have a third to egg on either one of them. For now. One is in a different program now and one is attempting the public high school so if things don't work out we could get either of them back at any time.

    I hope everyone is well. I know I missed a lot! I especially missed you guys!
    Last edited by daylilies; 09-04-2012 at 01:39 PM.

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