Secular Confessions

[Bridget]

I've been fine with him going to vegas for the weekend to meet his dad. I was encouraging him to go meet a friend he'd spoken fondly of at a music festival in the fall. If he happened to be in India and wanted to spend some extra time soaking up the culture, I could understand that while being a little jealous.
I am not a controlling person. I have no desire to be in charge of a grown man's decisions.
It is just this particular scenario with this particular person. Someone he's at a tumultuous and sordid relationship with.

And now he's come home with a chip on his shoulder after spending the morning with a local friend. I'm sure his friend has told him how wrong I am to be upset about this and given dbf a little victim treatment. I'm also sure dbf left out a few important details when describing the situation to him.

[3andMe]

I agree that these scenarios are totally different, Bridget. And you have a perfect right to be upset. And a reasonable and thoughtful partner would take your feelings into account.

[missychrissy]

ita with L.

[Ky'sMom]

If we went somewhere, I'd pick where, when, what we'd eat, what we'd see. I'd even plan the map and tell him where to park. I have nothing like that left in me. I just want him to start making some decisions himself. Even the little ones. Goodness-if he could plan an entire vacation for us himself...ah, the thought is almost like a sexual fantasy for me. It'll never happen.

That made me chuckle Chrissy LOL!

But being that my DH is also a large child, I understand your sentiments. I try to go spend a night or weekend at a luxury hotel twice a year to get away from the house since I don't have enough money to go anywhere special. But I will go to a play or to the library and then go watch some reality TV marathon at the hotel all night. It is very relaxing, but I'm nerdy and need quiet time so theater, books, and cheesy TV are a good release for me.

ita with L.

I agree with her too about your BF Bridget. I would try not to worry though as well. Go and do something fun that you've been wanting to do with the kids and hopefully he will have a horrible time. I always think it is funny when my DH goes off with one or more of his "wild" friends and he ends up calling me from wherever they are at and telling me he should have just stayed home because wherever he is is pretty crappy and boring or the "wild" friends are getting on his Fing nerves.

Erin

[Ky'sMom]

Oh, Hi Kara!!!

Welcome to the group.

Erin

[demigraf]

Well, welcome! It's going to drive me crazy until I figure out who you look like though

Thanks! Let me know if you think of it, I'm curious now.

Maggie Gyllenhaal? I think you look like her anyway, kara. I think she's really fantastic and has beautiful eyes.

---------

Bridget, once again, I'm reading and responding one page behind, so I didn't see your post about M's trip until now. I think he's lying to himself if he thinks you have no reason not to trust him. Ugh! I have some more thoughts on it, but will post again in a little bit.

[3andMe]

I meant to say welcome Kara too! And also that you look familiar to me as well. I don't know why, though.

I was just thinking the other day that we talk so much, and about ongoing things that we are all so familiar with, that it must be really intimidating to jump in here even if you're just an occasional poster, let alone someone new. Heck, even I feel weird posting if I haven't been around for a little bit, because I feel awkward not addressing stuff that's been going on since the last time that I posted. Eventually I just have to get over it, though, because I just can't reply to everything and I'll never post if I make that my goal.

Anyway, I think it demonstrates an extra level of friendliness and bravery to hop right in here, and I wish there was some way we could continue our ongoing conversation and still let people know it's fine to jump in and out as they want. Welcome again, Kara! (And see, I had meant to reply to you earlier and got sidetracked with all the other stuff. This is what I mean about not being able to reply to everything.)

[daylilies]

Nope not Maggie whatserface (I can't spell her last name lol). Someone with long blonde hair, not a big name actress, maybe someone I've seen on tv. I'll get to the bottom of this! LOL

[demigraf]

Bridget, I'm still thinking about your dilemma because I wonder what I'd do if I were in your shoes to make things more workable on a longterm basis (because I think the worrying causes you suffering and it makes me want to help take that away). The one thing that I would try (that you might have already tried) is to genuinely care less - not just pretend to his face that you don't care, but really not be as concerned with what he does or the content of his character. Given that you've already decided for yourself that you want to stay in the relationship, it might help to ask yourself how realistic it would be to expect him to be any different from the person he's demonstrated he is for the cumulative amount of time you've known him. I don't know, I just think - from my standpoint of being ignorant about 95% of your relationship - that there must be some affirmation you can tell yourself to clarify your goals and make yourself feel like he's all worth it, warts and all, which will allow you to just let him be "that guy" who can't turn down a weekend of debauchery with a person he doesn't even like.

I started typing all this other stuff out, but remembered this one article I looked up (for my own marriage), and I think it sums up what I'm trying to say about the case for adjusting one's own thinking sooo much better, so I'm just gonna paste some of it here instead:

Does your spouse make promises that aren't kept? Does your spouse acknowledge that there are problems in your relationship but refuses to change behaviors or see a marriage counselor with you?

Growing Frustration
The frustration of your spouse's lack of follow through on good intentions, or saying one thing and then doing another, or breaking promises can slowly erode both the emotional and physical intimacy in your marriage.

This frustration can be heightened if your spouse refuses to seek marriage counseling with you.

What can you do when faced with a spouse who has a serious behavior (gambles, drinks, spends too much money, has a very negative attitude, can't keep a job, is emotionally or physically abusive, doesn't make time for the children or spouse, is unfaithful, etc.) that could potentially destroy your marriage and your spouse won't change, isn't willing to work on improving. Although it isn't easy to cope with this type of situation in a marriage, here's help on how you can deal with a difficult marriage when only one of you wants change.

No Easy Answers
There are no easy answers when your spouse can see no reason for change or doesn't want your marriage to change. Some situations can be dealt with and other situations are deal breakers.
Only you know what you can tolerate and still be emotionally healthy yourself.
...

You Can't Change Your Spouse
•Accept that you can't change your spouse. You can only change yourself and your own reactions. Changing your own behavior may trigger your spouse to want to make changes.

•Respond differently to difficult situations. If you've had the same argument over and over, state that you will not rehash the issue and leave the room. If you've not expressed your feelings previously, share how you feel with your spouse.

Know Yourself
•Get to know yourself and look at your own attitudes, behaviors, expectations, hopes, dreams, memories, concerns, behavior triggers, fears, etc. Ask yourself how long you think you can stay in your marriage if things don't improve. Consider individual counseling to prevent feeling depressed or helpless, to understand your role in the conflict in your marriage, and to clarify your plans for your future.

•Decide which of your spouse's negative behaviors you can live with and which ones are deal breakers. Decide if you are able to adjust to the irritating and hurtful situations in your marriage or not.

Face The Issues
•Realize that your spouse may not be as frustrated and unhappy as you are.
...

Strategies for Difficult Conversations
•...
•Agree to set a time frame to re-evaluate how things are going.

Re-Evaluate
If things are not going well when the two of you are ready to re-evaluate your marriage issues, think about these questions:

•What is the best thing that could happen if you stay together?
•What is the best thing that could happen if you divorce?
•What is the worst thing that could happen if you stay together?
•What is the worst thing that could happen if you divorce?
•Even if you believe your marriage is over, try one more time. Don't leave without telling your spouse you don't think the two of you can save your marriage without professional help.

Einstein supposedly said “You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war,” and I've found that it rings true for me & Steve too. It definitely doesn't promote peace if either one of us treats the other as though some other shoe is just about to drop. So, to tie this smattering of random thoughts all together, maybe there's just something you could tell yourself to increase your trust in M. Maybe it just means there's going to always be a certain amount of lunkheadedness in his thoughts and actions, but you know and are comfortable with exactly where he'd draw the line.

[Gwenn]

Home from work and I am so tired. Too tired to respond in here in detail, but imagine I did because I'm sure I would have agreed with everyone in here!

Myles, you asked if I have more blog posts coming and I do. I have two topics I've thought through and will write about. I haven't decided my posting schedule yet, though ... weekly, twice a month, whenever, etc.

[Bridget]

Myles, that is great advice. And I say that with a level of arrogance, I suppose, since that is the same advice I have been giving myself. I nodded my head through that whole part you quoted. I have been reading a lot of Buddhist literature lately. I have even been thinking of writing him a love letter as per the advice of Thich Nhat Hanh letting him know that I understand his suffering and that I accept everything about him with love and respect.

But you know what? I am just not that humble!

Anyway, point being I am really working toward this. But here is the deal. I don't trust my judgement because when he cheated I trusted him completely. I can handle most of his crap but the dishonesty is what really gets to me.

We read so much about how certain connections are made in the brain in the early years of life and if they are not made then, they never are. I wonder sometimes if he missed something as a young child that made him incapable of a totally honest relationship.

[missychrissy]

Myles, I hope to get an opportunity tomorrow to read your post. I'm sure it's full of good advice, and I've been reflecting on myself as well and my approach with Rich. Something has to give or we'll break up. I want us to survive, so I need to learn new ways of coping with the disappointments.

Anyway, I had to come in and vent some more because Jesi didn't make it out of her drug counseling appointment discharged like we'd hoped. I had suspicions and doubts and her counselor asked if I'd feel better if he tested her today? He thought for sure it would come back clean. It didn't.

I'm not sure what the next step is. I'm too tired to think.

[Gwenn]

So the counselor thought she was clean and you didn't, and you were right? I honestly think in that case I'd find a new counselor ... not because he was wrong but because possibly she's pulled the wool over his eyes. Or maybe he'll learn from this experience?

I'm so sorry.

[missychrissy]

Well I didn't exactly think she was using. I was feeling anxious about discharging her and he could tell by the look on my face. I said I was concerned because she'd just skipped school again on Tuesday and that was part of the pattern before when she was using. He was quiet and he definitely had 2nd thoughts when I told him that. He just phrased the question, "Would it make you feel any better if we tested her right now?" because he knew I was going to say yes. He didn't know, until that point, that she'd skipped. And that was the first time since she was using that she skipped school. That I know of.

[Gwenn]

Well I didn't exactly think she was using. I was feeling anxious about discharging her and he could tell by the look on my face. I said I was concerned because she'd just skipped school again on Tuesday and that was part of the pattern before when she was using. He was quiet and he definitely had 2nd thoughts when I told him that. He just phrased the question, "Would it make you feel any better if we tested her right now?" because he knew I was going to say yes. He didn't know, until that point, that she'd skipped. And that was the first time since she was using that she skipped school. That I know of.

Ah. That makes more sense. And possibly it's the first time she's used as well, so he was likely right in thinking she was clean.

What a hard situation. Changing behavior really has to come from within, and even when the person really wants it it's still a struggle. Hang in there.

[demigraf]

I was on my way home w/ bodhi and saw news vans and a crew interviewing a bald, good-looking white guy in front of a house about a quarter mile from my house. The guy looked pretty calm at the time. Then I checked the local weather rpt and followed the link/headline to this: http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...g-at-her-home/

That poor family, and who knows what was wrong with the dog too.

[missychrissy]

omg! do you know what kind of dog? The graphic shows a pit, but it looks like a generic gif to me.

[missychrissy]

Ah. That makes more sense. And possibly it's the first time she's used as well, so he was likely right in thinking she was clean.

What a hard situation. Changing behavior really has to come from within, and even when the person really wants it it's still a struggle. Hang in there.

Yeah, she did pass sporadic surprise tests, but he's sending this sample to the lab to determine what the actual content is. If it was really just a couple puffs then it shouldn't be high.

I so badly wish I could trust her. I hope some day I'll be able to. I really do.

[daylilies]

The story says it was a pit bull. There was a pit bull incident outside our house tonight! We heard a lot of commotion outside, a lot of barking. We looked and there was a pit bull and two small dogs. The pit bull was antagonizing the little dogs who belonged to a woman who was in hysterics. She managed to pick up one of her dogs and the pit bull's owner came out and restrained his dog. I guess the dog got out of the yard or house or whatever and started chasing the little dogs who were being taken for a walk. It was really scary and DH went out to help and Josh wanted to watch. I was afraid the pit bull was going to attack

[missychrissy]

The story says it was a pit bull.

Duh me...I didn't see more to the story under that pic.

That makes me sad. Pits are such great dogs as a general rule, but man if just one acts out everyone hears about it.

[demigraf]

Even sadder... the woman was pregnant.

http://pacifica.patch.com/articles/p...y-pet-pit-bull

But you read the story and they say the dog was "suspected". I know pit bulls are instinctively more aggressive, but I've met some wonderful ones with really attentive owners.

[Gwenn]

So sad.

[demigraf]

The neighborhood mailing list is running rampant right now with debate over the legality of pitbull ownership (the most highly publicized case in recent years was here in SF too and the attack was caused by a dog of Presa Canario breed, not pitbulls). Anyway, people are trying to make points and others are getting offended, and of course the arguments are escalating. I just wish the family well. I liked it better when the neighborhood was united to save some palm trees.

[3andMe]

What a tragic story.

My doctor ordered a pregnancy test on me because of some symptoms I'd been having. I went in to get my blood drawn (with ALL of my kids) and I saw all the vials of blood and asked what they were for and when the tech listed them and said pregnancy test I just blanched. I called dh from the car and we quickly googled pregnancy after tubal ligation and saw all of these stories about it. Luckily we only had to wait a day before we found out it was negative, but good grief! My doctor added palpitations to my symptoms.

I think I actually have post tubal ligation syndrome now, which sucks. It was going so well for so long.

[Gwenn]

L, a woman I know got pregnant many years post tubal and at the age of 52. She miscarried due to blighted ovum. But that story would lead me to believe anything is possible.

I hope you're feeling okay. Is post tubal ligation syndrome serious?

[demigraf]

L, yikes! Wow. How mindblowing it would have been if #4 was on the way. I hope they get to the bottom of what's going on with you. You've got a lot of small people to look after and we want you well. How is tubal ligation syndrome treated?

I confess I almost contacted the husband who lost his wife, baby-to-be, and likely a beloved family dog today. I can't imagine his level of grief. I had looked up the victim on FB and found that she and her hubby shared a FB profile (I love it when couples do that. My DH would blanche at the idea). I came very close to sending him my sympathy and also letting him know that our neighborhood group was there to help him with his needs at this time. However, I waited too long with just some back and forth communications on the n'hood mailing list over how we could approach him and what sort of help we could offer him as a group (seeing as how no one personally knew him). By the time I went to look for the profile again on FB, it had vanished. He either upped his privacy settings or took it down altogether. With his name in all the local papers, I just hope he wasn't getting any hate-filled messages. I already saw how the switchboard lit up just in our tiny little community. People are shifting some blame to the couple for owning the dogs to begin with. It just angers me that nobody really knows what happened, and yet they're coming to some crazy conclusions, not to mention sort of making this tragedy about themselves and how their safety was always in jeopardy too because they walked past the house every day. Yaddity yada. Blech.

I have even been thinking of writing him a love letter as per the advice of Thich Nhat Hanh letting him know that I understand his suffering and that I accept everything about him with love and respect.

But you know what? I am just not that humble!

Anyway, point being I am really working toward this. But here is the deal. I don't trust my judgement because when he cheated I trusted him completely. I can handle most of his crap but the dishonesty is what really gets to me.

We read so much about how certain connections are made in the brain in the early years of life and if they are not made then, they never are. I wonder sometimes if he missed something as a young child that made him incapable of a totally honest relationship.

Bridget, I'm sorry I got sidetracked from the earlier discussion today...yes, I completely feel you about his dishonesty. (And the lack of humility part cracked me up.) I'd be really curious as to why he lies today. Like, maybe he feels he needs to be someone he's not, because he doesn't think you'd accept him if he were honest. Perhaps that's where that love letter might change things because if you truly mean it that you love & accept him, he should be made to know that fact, internalize it. I read somewhere that guys often cheat because they're sick of being a disappointment to their female partners. Like, they want to just feel like they're with someone who looks up to them even for a moment. It's total weakness on the cheater's part, and not an excuse for rotten behavior. But if that is an actual cause of infidelity, at least one knows it can be addressed. And as usual, I don't know if this is you two, but if the way M feels you perceive him has any influence on his lack of openness with you, then that's something you could definitely adjust.

Do you know that quote by Marianne Williamson? I'm almost positive I quoted it in here before and I hesitate to share it anymore because think it's starting to get overused in new age self help lit, but I'll share it again anyway:

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? ...Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. ...And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.”

To apply it to M, perhaps if you didn't "shrink away" from believing in him in your relationship, M would be given the confidence to be honest and feel he had "permission" to be the guy with integrity that you want him to be. Just another thought...

I can totally see the arguments against everything I wrote on this topic today. I mean, all this "You can't change others, you can only change yourself" stuff only works to a certain extent and then you start finding yourself waaaaaaaaaaaay out on a limb. And when you think about it, there's an innate imbalance to any relationship where one person feels the need to give "permission" to the other person to be the best of himself. But nevertheless, you're still in the game and working at it, so this is course I'd be taking if I were in your position.

It's tough to be a smart, strong woman, because that makes it less likely you'll find your equal, and if you don't, the guy you choose is always going to feel like he's playing catch-up to you. But you already knew that. I hope it gets really good for you soon, luv.

[AmeriBrit]

Myles, that is such a tragic story. :'(

Chrissy, I'm so sorry that J tested positive. Has she said anything to you about it?

Bridget, I am no expert with relationships at all (have only ever been in one!), but it feels like you've never forgiven his cheating, but you are still with him....something has to give. Myles' posts seem very wise. I hope that you can find a solution to make you feel better.

L, I'd never heard of tubal ligation syndrome. I'll have to google it b/c I'm curious now.

I've got to log off now and go catch a shower while Cash is sleeping!

[AmeriBrit]

Oh, I meant to say, as well, that I've been working on a personal statement for my application in to the teaching program that I'm applying for in November...it can be no more than 150 words and I'm really struggling to use so little words to make a good impression about myself! Argh.

[missychrissy]

Kate-I wanted to add a comment about the dogs outside your house but ran out of time last night. That stuff scares me to pieces, especially when there are little kids around. I remember a few years ago there was a story that circulated about a woman that was driving and saw these two dogs (can't remember their breed, but I think they were rotties?) attacking a child. She jumped out of her car and when she couldn't get them off the kid, she actually covered his body with hers and wrapped her arms and legs around him so the dogs couldn't get him. I'm tearing up now just thinking about it...can you imagine? Talk about hero. It wasn't a child she even know.

Lydia-oh goodness! Will 'we' ever be able to live without pregnancy scares? And I'm curious about what post tubal ligation syndrome is too. Curiously-and tangentially-I remember when I was researching bipolar disorder heavy and I read about some studies indicating that having a tubal at the time of childbirth can trigger bipolar disorder in people that are genetically inclined to have it. I'm not sure how valid that is, but that's why I won't get a tubal. My mom was psychotic with hers. It wasn't just mood swings. I'm not even trying to suggest in any way that that's even possible with you, but the whole post tubal ligation syndrome made me think of it and now I'm more curious about what does happen to women when they have that procedure done.

Ash-I haven't really said much after Jesi's appointment. I'm just...empty. I don't know how to feel, what to say, what to do next. Grounding her doesn't work. Taking her to counseling apparently doesn't work. I did ask her if she wanted rehab. Maybe she does? Maybe it would make it easier for her to get clean? She got defensive and said, "I don't care. Send me to rehab if you want." She doesn't often get an attitude with me, so now I'm wondering if she took it that I was wanting to send her away? *sigh* It's not that. I just want the lying to be over. Even with the positive test she tried to boldface lie to both me and Jake about it. We both just sat there staring at her. Jake told her what her choices were (one of them being to fess up) and we just sat. Till she fessed up.

Good luck with your personal statement. I bet that's extremely stressful. I'm sure it will turn out well though. You're very clever with words.

[daylilies]

Good luck with the personal statement Ash!

Lydia, I would have been a little scared too! I hope you feel better soon

Chrissy, wow! Was the woman okay?

Actually near the end of the fight DH was coming back inside and Josh opened the door--I panicked and kind of snapped at him to shut the door-I was afraid the pit bull would sense him and have a new thing to attract his attention. I started thinking about what I would do if a dog attacked him and that's the very thing I thought of--wrap myself around him.