Secular Confessions

[Gwenn]

Just had a very strange thing happen.

This weekend I got a call from a coworker. She was my partner when I did evaluations and so we worked very closely together. She's about 20 years older than me and she was around my age when she had her kids but she's really nice. She called to tell me that she for certain hasn't been hired back next year due to budget issues and the fact that she was hired back as a retiree. Anyway, she was very down so I shared with her that we were going the see the RE and we talked about that for a little while.

Today, she called again because she wanted the name of a company I used for pet sitting and while we were talking she mentioned that yesterday she learned that her 19 year old daughter's friend is pregnant and considering an abortion. The friend herself was adopted and my coworker was thinking the girl might consider adoption and wanted to know if we want the baby!

I'm a little in shock. DH and I have discussed the possibility of adoption as something out there, but it isn't something we have made up our minds to do. I'm actually a little excited to see what the RE can do for us so I haven't written off conceiving our own child. We talked and we definitely want to still go through with the RE, which would require money that we wouldn't want to be taking away from an adopted child. We wouldn't mind adopting this baby, actually I'd be excited to, but we don't have cash on hand to cover the mother's medical expenses. If I got pregnant, my insurance would cover it but it wouldn't cover expenses for a potential adoption. Plus, there is always the chance she would back out of it. So after our talk we decided to tell my friend that if the girl needs a family we would be happy to take the child, but she could very likely find another set of adoptive parents who could provide her with financial support for her medical expenses, which we could not do. I hope that is the right choice and we don't end up regretting that down the road, but I think that is exactly what DH and I are both feeling and we're very clearly on the same page with this.

[daylilies]

Well, I think if you both feel it was the right decision, then I think it was. A tough one nevertheless. You did leave the option open, if they don't find anyone who can be more financially supportive.

[demigraf]

Just had a very strange thing happen.

This weekend I got a call from a coworker. She was my partner when I did evaluations and so we worked very closely together. She's about 20 years older than me and she was around my age when she had her kids but she's really nice. She called to tell me that she for certain hasn't been hired back next year due to budget issues and the fact that she was hired back as a retiree. Anyway, she was very down so I shared with her that we were going the see the RE and we talked about that for a little while.

Today, she called again because she wanted the name of a company I used for pet sitting and while we were talking she mentioned that yesterday she learned that her 19 year old daughter's friend is pregnant and considering an abortion. The friend herself was adopted and my coworker was thinking the girl might consider adoption and wanted to know if we want the baby!

I'm a little in shock. DH and I have discussed the possibility of adoption as something out there, but it isn't something we have made up our minds to do. I'm actually a little excited to see what the RE can do for us so I haven't written off conceiving our own child. We talked and we definitely want to still go through with the RE, which would require money that we wouldn't want to be taking away from an adopted child. We wouldn't mind adopting this baby, actually I'd be excited to, but we don't have cash on hand to cover the mother's medical expenses. If I got pregnant, my insurance would cover it but it wouldn't cover expenses for a potential adoption. Plus, there is always the chance she would back out of it. So after our talk we decided to tell my friend that if the girl needs a family we would be happy to take the child, but she could very likely find another set of adoptive parents who could provide her with financial support for her medical expenses, which we could not do. I hope that is the right choice and we don't end up regretting that down the road, but I think that is exactly what DH and I are both feeling and we're very clearly on the same page with this.

Wow, what a tough call, Mandy, but could be so exciting. Do you have a real sense of what her expenses could be? There are already so many community-based resources for expectant mothers that your own out-of-pocket could be close to nothing, as long as you help steer the girl towards the help she needs. And you could perhaps draft a legally binding agreement that if she doesn't give you the baby for adoption, she'd be responsible for reimbursing you for the expenses you incurred by taking her in.

Then again, I'd have a hard time collecting on that agreement if she were to change her mind since she'd obviously need every penny to raise that little baby.

I'd be shocked too. Definitely share your thoughts and keep us in the loop!

[Gwenn]

Wow, what a tough call, Mandy, but could be so exciting. Do you have a real sense of what her expenses could be? There are already so many community-based resources for expectant mothers that your own out-of-pocket could be close to nothing, as long as you help steer the girl towards the help she needs. And you could perhaps draft a legally binding agreement that if she doesn't give you the baby for adoption, she'd be responsible for reimbursing you for the expenses you incurred by taking her in.

Then again, I'd have a hard time collecting on that agreement if she were to change her mind since she'd obviously need every penny to raise that little baby.

I'd be shocked too. Definitely share your thoughts and keep us in the loop!

It really does come down to money in the end. You're right, I wouldn't want to take money away from the baby if she kept it, and I wouldn't want to not spend money with the RE in order to spend money on this child that might be taken away from us, if that makes sense. DH and I talked about community clinics, but really there must be many financially well-off couples who have already made a firm choice for adoption that would welcome this child and they would be able to provide her with better quality care than we would.

[Cosmosmom]

Wow, that must have been a hard decision to make.

In the future, adopting doesn't mean you pay for the birth. We would not accept a match like that as we are not rich. Almost always the girls are on medicaid or their parents insurance which would be the same as mine more of less if I gave birth (I would pay 20%). States really govern what expenses can be paid to a birth mom so it doesn't feel or seem like you are buying a baby. I mean I believe in WI there is a dollar amount limit on the gift you can buy her after the labor.
for us the majority of the money will be going to the agency and lawyers. The agency uses the money to provide services to the girls and counseling, staff, all the work that goes into the education and making the matches.

We can't predict the future so really just need to go with the gut so it sounds like you guys did the right thing.

[Gwenn]

Thanks, Jennifer. It was a tough decision but I feel like right now it isn't a road we're set up to go down. I know I mentioned we still need to re-do our kitchen. We don't have a stove or oven right now so our cooking is done on the grill, toaster oven, crock pot, etc. and I just can't imagine inviting a social worker over for a home inspection and pointing out we don't have a fully functional kitchen. Which means we'd have to add the kitchen costs into the adoption costs if that makes sense. Although we ARE planning to re-do the kitchen.

I'm not sure we have to use an agency for a private adoption in our state. Not sure how all that works. DH googled private adoption and searched via our state and it looked like you could just set up a legal contract. Didn't say anything about an agency or a social worker but it seems to me you must at least have a home inspection, right?

[Gwenn]

I will add that we haven't said anything back to my friend yet, but I think the decision is made.

[missychrissy]

Wow Mandy that's big. But it sounds like you've made the right decision to me. How incredible.

[missychrissy]

I'm not sure we have to use an agency for a private adoption in our state. Not sure how all that works. DH googled private adoption and searched via our state and it looked like you could just set up a legal contract. Didn't say anything about an agency or a social worker but it seems to me you must at least have a home inspection, right?

It probably varies by state, but I think that if it's a private adoption you don't need the home inspection done. I wish I knew more and could actually be helpful.

Any new developments?

[3andMe]

Wow, what a surprise big decision to have to make, Mandy! But obviously other people think you would make a great mom, too.

It was the twins' 4th birthday yesterday. I had to work and they had to go to school. We had balloons and cupcakes, and I had my sister and my mom over for dinner. My mom made their dolls matching dress-up clothes (matching to the twins', I mean), which was just adorable--little tiger and leopard outfits, and a little tutu and wizard cloak and hat. I had each twin go out and get the other one a present, too, because I didn't want the whole birthday to be about them receiving all of the presents, but about giving a little, too.

My mom talked to me in the kitchen afterward, and told me what a good job I was doing as a mom and how glad she was to be a part of their lives, and how she would have hated to be only seeing them for brief glimpses like our recent trip to Wyoming. Then we talked about how exhausting they were to take care of, but how wonderful they were.

It's hard to believe I have four-year-olds.

My grandfather is in the hospital. He fell down at night in a closet when he got up to pee, and thinks it's 1975. He's a brilliant man, and he's had a sudden decline in function and now has fractured vertebrae and my grandmother will not be able to manage him at home by herself when he is out of the hospital. They're looking into all the options and one of my uncles knows health care systems, but we're all worried about him lingering unhappily in a nursing home. He's been crying a lot.

And then one of my young-ish co-workers just found out two days ago that her adult onset asthma is a tumor. Non-smoker. Teenage kids. I can't stop thinking about her, my grandfather, my family. My eyes are all puffy.

[daylilies]

Happy birthday to the twins!
I'm sorry about the rest of it though. That must have been a tough day.
Sorry about your grandfather, and coworker

[AmeriBrit]

Oh, L. I'm so sorry. It sounds like you have a lot on your plate. I'm glad your mom spoke to you and cheered you up. My in-laws will tell me every now and then how good they think I am with my kids and that makes me feel a little bit better about myself. Raising children is the hardest job a person ever takes on!

Happy 4th birthday to R and C! From the stories you share, they seem like 2 lovely little people!

As for me, AF showed up today 4 days early. It never does that. I ALWAYS have a 28 day cycle and even start day 1 at the same time of the day every time, so it's really weird that it showed today.

[AmeriBrit]

Oh, L. I'm so sorry. It sounds like you have a lot on your plate. I'm glad your mom spoke to you and cheered you up. My in-laws will tell me every now and then how good they think I am with my kids and that makes me feel a little bit better about myself. Raising children is the hardest job a person ever takes on!

Happy 4th birthday to R and C! From the stories you share, they seem like 2 lovely little people!

As for me, AF showed up today 4 days early. It never does that. I ALWAYS have a 28 day cycle and even start day 1 at the same time of the day every time, so it's really weird that it showed today.

[Bridget]

Lydia, big huge hugs.

[girlwonder]

I'm sorry, L. What a lot to deal with on one day. I'm glad that at least one of those things was affirming and positive, though the rest of it sounds so hard.

[Bridget]

I have been having so much fun on my time off and so are the kids. We've done a lot of cool things and their behavior is absolutely stellar. They rock.
Today, however, I woke up with another effing headache so I don't feel like I can drive. Plus it's storming out so we may just hunker down at home. Savana and I are reading Mary Poppins and I rented it from the library so that will be a nice surprise for them.

Lydia, I keep thinking how sweet that was of your mom to acknowledge what a great mother you are. I always think about how my mom was the only one to say that to me. It's really nice to hear. isn't it?

[missychrissy]

L I'm so sorry about all that's going on.

Happy Birthday to the wee ones. I cannot believe they're 4 already. Wow!

When is your appt with the chiro Bridget?

[3andMe]

Bridget, you must be forgetting that 90% of APA tells you what a wonderful mom you are on a regular basis. The other 10% just doesn't really know you well. Not to diminish the loss of your mom, I just don't want you to forget that you do get validation. I guess maybe it's just not IRL, so you may forget about it.

About two weeks ago, we went to a tiny birthday celebration with our friend's son and his mother from out of town came, and she watched me interact with my kids for about half an hour and then started telling me what a wonderful mother I was. I think it was after I told Ro he shouldn't climb on top of the picnic table with the cake because it wasn't good manners to be on top of a table people were using for eating, but if he really wanted to climb on a picnic table he could go climb on one of the ones we weren't using. Of course, shortly after that baby S. faceplanted off a chair and scraped his nose so that all of our WY pictures had him with a big scab on his face. Still, it's always nice to hear, and makes up for the days you go to bed and question your sanity.

[Bridget]

Still, it's always nice to hear, and makes up for the days you go to bed and question your sanity.

Totally!
And you are right, I do get validation on here. I know I'd question myself a lot more if it wasn't for the friends I've made on this board. I'd really love if dbf would say it. It seems like the only time he wants to comment on my parenting is when one of the kids is acting up.

And as long as we are talking about dbf, I caught him in another lie this morning. His general propensity towards dishonesty is so unsettling to me. And the fact that he thinks it's no big deal is even more so. The only thing I could think to say to him in his bumbling efforts to defend himself is that the very first quality I look for in a friend is honesty and without it, a friendship is nearly impossible. On that note, he left with the kids to the home improvement store. I'm sure he will come home with a whole new speech on why what he did was ok.

[missychrissy]

I'm flabbergasted at how you can tolerate it. I'm like you in that I value honesty above just about everything. But to later attempt to justify the lie? I can't even imagine how enraged that would make me.

Last night Rich wanted to go out to our former house and get some outdoor things. Conner was really acting up and often he listens to Rich better than me, but Rich wasn't going to have room to take him. I asked (pleaded really) that Rich be as quick as possible because I was utterly exhausted. So what does he do? He meanders around with my brother and it took hours. The only reason I knew that is I happened to call my mom and when I said something about them being out there she said, "No, they were just here. They went to Tim's friend's house." I talked to my mom at least 40 minutes before they pulled in my driveway (I live 5 minutes from her now) and by 'they were just here' I don't know if she meant 2 minutes or 15 minutes, but at the very least Rich wasted 41 minutes doing whatever.

When I questioned him about where he went, he first said just out to that house and back. I brought up my conversation with mom and he said, "Oh. Yeah, well Tim wanted to ____ " (I tuned it out because I was annoyed). I told him I felt like he was totally ignoring my needs and I didn't appreciate it. Rich didn't respond. At least he didn't try to lie further or justify what he did.

[girlwonder]

His general propensity towards dishonesty is so unsettling to me. And the fact that he thinks it's no big deal is even more so.

I would have such a hard time with this.

[Bridget]

I would have such a hard time with this.

I do. I've been crying all morning between this and my darn headache.

I see the chiro again today for the 3rd time. He sais not to expect immediate results.

[missychrissy]

I'm sorry Bridget.

[demigraf]

L, I'm truly sorry to hear about your grandfather and all the stress that comes with rearranging lives to accomodate his condition. Is he here in CA or back in WY? I hope his recovery goes well, poor guy.

On a related note, I'm trying to store away the lessons I'm learning now as the mother of a toddler, since I anticipate having to use them again later on with eldercare where my folks are concerned. I'm already seeing many similarities and challenges around keeping respect for your charge in the equation.

And I'm sorry to hear about your coworker too.

Bridget, I feel the same way. It's so hard to trust someone who plays fast and loose with the truth. I hope he gives you some sincerity instead of another big justification when he gets back. Hmmmmpf.

[demigraf]

And chrissy, sounds like R was maddening last night. I wonder if he feels the same pressures you do with all you have going on, and his goofing off is his way of coping. It's still way unfair to you, but it does seem the nicer explanation that he shares the same burdens you do- more like you're in it together.

[missychrissy]

- more like you're in it together.

I don't feel that at all. I feel like I'm left alone with the hard stuff. 100% of the budgeting, all the stress of dealing with the bank and any other utility/bill that comes along. He might move heavy boxes around and the furniture, but he's not 'in it with me' as far as figuring anything out. In fact he was asking me about what to throw away and I was snapping at him, "I do NOT have to be the one to make EVERY decision in this house!!" He's called me from one broken ATM to tell me it wasn't working, rather than drive less than a block to one of 3 other ATMS in the area. He either cannot or will not ever, never, ever make a decision. I even had to tell him where to stack all the boxes. 2 24-foot truck loads worth of boxes.

God-do I sound resentful? I am.

[Gwenn]

I think we're all entitled to a little resentment.

Bridget, I agree I just can't handle dishonesty. It's absolutely the worst thing.

L, I'm so sorry about your grandfather and your coworker. It's so hard.

It probably varies by state, but I think that if it's a private adoption you don't need the home inspection done. I wish I knew more and could actually be helpful.

Any new developments?

I had a pretty sleepless night last night. I started fantasizing about having a baby here and I just don't know what is the right decision to make. When I woke up I told DH I wasn't sure we'd made the right decision and he said he didn't think we'd actually MADE a decision and if I wanted this baby, I should make the offer to adopt it. Simple as that.

The thing is, though, I just don't know for sure if the mother is even interested in adoption.

It occurred to me last night during my tossing and turning that a girl I grew up with (we were in school together from Kinder-8th grade) is now a law professor and her specialty is international adoption law. She's on my facebook so we're vaguely in touch. I know she isn't a specialist in domestic adoption but it seems like I should ask her what advice she has to give me or resources she can point me to.

[missychrissy]

Absolutely Mandy, contact your friend. Even if she doesn't know, she'll know who you should contact. I'm actually feeling a little butterflies for you.

[demigraf]

Yes! What chrissy said, Mandy. I think the fact you tossed and turned means that your mind still wants to know more before making the decision. This seems like an opportunity that - as you said - others dream about. Even I would have a hard time turning the chance down if presented to me. Don't feel you should make your mind up right away, but feel free to explore and imagine what the process would entail by asking your lawyer friend and estimating costs.

chrissy - I truly know what you feel. It's like having another chikd rather than an equal partner.

[3andMe]

Shoot, I'm scared to write anything too personal anymore.