Secular Confessions

[Bridget]

I read the Flower's in the Attic series. But never Stephen King. Too scary for me.

Omg. It is physically hurting me not to make a condescending comment on my ignorant cousin's facebook status right now. Just the other day he spouted of some nonsense about how people who don't speak english should move back to their own country. How original, right?
Anyway, today it says: "Common sence-Too bad not everyone has it."

Be the Buddha, Bridget. Beeee the Buddha.

[AmeriBrit]

Bridget, I have the perfect picture for you to post in response to your cousin. It's a picture of some Native Americans and says something along the lines of controlling the immigration.

[Smplyme89]

I forgot all about the Dark Tower Series! I loved those! Makes me want to sit down an re-read them!

[Smplyme89]

Bridget, I have the perfect picture for you to post in response to your cousin. It's a picture of some Native Americans and says something along the lines of controlling the immigration.

[Bridget]

I need that picture!!! I will post it as my status!

[missychrissy]

Tomorrow is another day, according to Scarlett. Sleep well.

and soon, I will be returning to my Tara. Too bad it's nothing like the mansion in Gone With The Wind.

Did anyone here read the Flowers in the Attic books? Man, were they messed up. I was also reading Stephen King in my early teens...loved those, but when I decided to watch The Shining movie, that was a bad idea. I was terrified of long hallways for years (still kind of am ;))

I read and loved Flowers in the Attic. The movie was beyond cheesy though. I still have it around somewhere. In fact, it was one of Bobbie and Jessica's movies when they were little. :blush: They liked it.

I found the first 3-4 VC Andrews books ok. I rather liked them. But then they became monotonous. It was always the same story over and over again with different characters. I lost interest.

Never been a fan of the Steven King stuff. I got creeped out by stuff like the Twilight Zone when I was little and my friends were really into it so I avoided most of that when I had a choice.

I liked Christine and Carrie and that was it from him. I really struggle to follow anything 'not real' or couldn't happen in real life. Talk about saying "Huh? What?" all the time-that's what I find myself doing in most any sci-fi book I've tried to read. I give up.

I did chat with Bobbie last night about whether she thought I let her read too much too soon. Just out of curiosity. She certainly doesn't hold back in telling me where she thought I failed or where I could use improvement with Conner. Her opinion is allowing her to decide what to read for herself was one of my better decisions. She said it was like I trusted her to decide for herself where she was emotionally, and she did do the same thing I did when I was young and reading 'too much' for my age. She either put the book down till later or skipped the uncomfortable spots. She said if I had 'forbid' anything, it would have made her feel bad and she probably would have found a way to read it anyway...the curiosity about it would have been stronger.

[Smplyme89]

I did chat with Bobbie last night about whether she thought I let her read too much too soon. Just out of curiosity. She certainly doesn't hold back in telling me where she thought I failed or where I could use improvement with Conner. Her opinion is allowing her to decide what to read for herself was one of my better decisions. She said it was like I trusted her to decide for herself where she was emotionally, and she did do the same thing I did when I was young and reading 'too much' for my age. She either put the book down till later or skipped the uncomfortable spots. She said if I had 'forbid' anything, it would have made her feel bad and she probably would have found a way to read it anyway...the curiosity about it would have been stronger.

I'd have to agree with Bobbie, my mom limited very little of what I could watch or read and trusted me to make my own decisions. Of course there were some exceptions to everything! We had a very open household (with my mom anyway-dad was a different story) we could go to my mom and talk about anything-and I mean anything! Now my mom is my best friend (corny but true) and I love the relationship we have because she always trusted me, valued my opinions, and treated me like I don't know-like I could handle things-but if I couldn't that was OK too

[missychrissy]

... treated me like...I could handle things-but if I couldn't that was OK too

Wow, that's essentially what Bobbie said too. She actually had a lot to say about it. She felt like reading books of all kinds helped her have an open mind and be accepting of others. At any rate, she was emphatic that I did the right thing and it's something she'll repeat with her kids.

[Smplyme89]

Wow, that's essentially what Bobbie said too. She actually had a lot to say about it. She felt like reading books of all kinds helped her have an open mind and be accepting of others. At any rate, she was emphatic that I did the right thing and it's something she'll repeat with her kids.

I agree. I plan to follow the same philosophy with Nolan and I knew you reminded me of someone awesome Chrissy!

[missychrissy]

Aw, aren't you sweet. Thank you.

[daylilies]

My parents kind of sheltered me for a long time...I read voraciously but didn't get into anything potentially controversial until middle school or high school (probably around the time I started reading Stephen King)
I don't fault them for that though, I fault them more for sheltering me from current events. My husband remembers watching the major news stories of our childhood and I never saw any of it. To this day I have a hard time following politics, war and other current events and I think it's partially because nobody explained it to me as a child.

[missychrissy]

9/11 was hard for me with the kids. Bobbie and Jessica were in Elementary school and I did keep it from them for a day or so, but finally had a big talk because I knew they would be seeing those images and there was nothing I could do about it. In fact, that is what finally made me cry over 9/11...just trying to wrap my head around what sort of a world I'd brought my children into.

[daylilies]

It blows my mind that teens today were very young when that happened...I still remember it so clearly.


I had thoughts about that too..It was obviously well before I had Josh but it had crossed my mind, that it's a crazy world and how would I explain this to my kids?

[missychrissy]

Bobbie was 8 and Jesi was 6. Sydney was 3 and absolutely oblivious to it all. She obviously doesn't remember pre-9/11, at least what the atmosphere of the world was then. I remember Bobbie was very sad and concerned. She really grasped the magnitude of it. Jesi was less affected.

[AmeriBrit]

Here's that pic:

[Cosmosmom]

Ok, so I'm jumping in a bit late....Gwen sorry the restaurant was closed. Though I don't think that there was anything on the menu I would eat! LOL I'm a picky eater and never even had tacos or chinese until I was out of high school and almost 19. My tastes have expanded but not to that high a level yet.

I read the flowers in the attic and a bunch of other series of hers when I was like 11 and up. Eventually they started to be boring and the same ole same ole so I stopped.

I have never seen a baby being born myself. I am sure that I could find a video and pictures but well I just figured I would worry about that when it was too late. I think that they showed a video in school but I was out sick with bronchitis or something.

I'm with Chrissy and anti-censorship for reading. I wasn't censored in what I read and started reading some racy things pretty early on. They just didn't have the fantastic YA lit that they do today so I went from Nancy Drew to adult books around 5th grade.
I do think that I would probably censor a bit visually though. For example, I would be fine with an 11 yr old me reading the Sookie Stackhouse books...there is some violence and sex in them. But I would probably not let 11 yr old me watch True Blood on HBO. Same characters and series but the visual is so much more graphic than the written.

My cousin who JUST turned 7 LOVES his video games. He told me he likes to shot things...but only aliens and his favorite game is Halo. And he wants Call of Duty but his moms haven't gotten that for him yet. I'm not thrilled with that and wouldn't be buying those video games for a child that age BUT he's a good boy and is very clear on real and pretend and isn't having bad dreams or anything.

But each family is different and does whatever works for them....and most people turn out to be decent adults.

[3andMe]

I was not censored in anything I read at all as a child, and I saw some fairly adult-oriented movies also from quite early on. I think my parents were much more comfortable with me seeing and reading about sex than violence, but I am also happy with their decision. They were always there to answer questions I had, and I feel like it's made me more able to be open-minded and less shockable about different beliefs and proclivities.

On the other hand, I knew absolutely nothing about current events. We had no tv, no radio, no newspapers. I barely knew who the president was. I am having a really difficult time figuring out what to tell my kids about what is going on in the world, but I certainly want them to be more informed than I was. When the earthquake and tsunami were happening in Japan, I talked to them about it--partially because we were going to the beach that day and we had to cancel because of the tsunami warnings and partially because people kept talking about it around us. Claire kept calling it "the salami." Later on, we watched footage of it on the computer.

[missychrissy]

Jennifer-I was wondering where you were! I was going to post about it too.

World events are by far one of the trickier things to explain to the kids. I'm never quite sure how much they need to know. Some of it is difficult for me to grasp as an adult.

[Cosmosmom]

I know I was in a meeting yesterday afternoon and last night I exercised again on schedule...yea me! After that I was just futzing around in the house and on the phone with MIL and watching Teen Mom so I wasn't online last night.
Can't believe I almost missed a dicussion about books! And I just have to say that I'm VERY glad that I'm not a children's librarian like was my plan when I started library school. OMG I would go insane I think with the parents who are always trying to get books banned from the public library. Put it on a banned list makes me WANT to read it. Really though, you don't want to your kid something, fine, don't check it out for them. But not up to you to make decisions on what others kids can read.

Movies I was sheltered from a bit as a kid. I wasn't 8 and watching R rated movies. Junior high/high school, not sheltered. But I never did care for really scary movies and I still don't like to watch them.

World events, not sheltered but I also didn't really care about them until I was a teen. I started paying more attention during the Golf War first time around. I should be able to remember things like the fall of communism and the wall coming down as I was old enough but I didn't really care. Politics and such...again not until I was 12 and older.

I like the news now and follow it...to a point. There is so much news that I end up picking and chosing what is more interesting to me. Same with politics.

So I agree with you Chrissy...even though I know things got talked about at home like world events and politics....I just didn't pay any attention until I was a little older and found it interesting and could understand it better.

[demigraf]

chrissy last night was a rough one, huh? I only read one page back this morning, so this response to that is a little late in coming. Are you feeling any better today after resting? I hope so.

On the earlier topic, I don't know how realistic it is for me to control the knowledge/content that Bodhi gets exposed to. I have little control over what he sees and hears in school today, even. But my impulse is to spoon feed him just the stuff I want him to develop a taste for. I think that's probably better accomplished - not by forbidding certain things but - by being a fair and likable parent with a genuine enthusiasm for those things you hope to nudge them towards. "Appreciation" can be taught for a lot of things. And Bridget, I feel similarly about G-rated movies as you do. I am amazed at what is considered ok for little kids. (Then again, Bodhi learned the word "stupid" from one of the original Thomas Train stories this week, so maybe nothing new. :/) The part in Nurture Shock really impressed me where it talked about kids missingthe moral lesson of a story if the villain seems too glamorous. I remember one of the Ramona books very clearly: where she tells her teacher her pantyhose is baggy and makes her legs look like elephants'. It was meant to be inappropriate, and she gets in trouble, but at my young age, I was so taken by the imagery (that Ramona's so sassy! so clever!) that I repeated it to MY teacher. And I got a stern lecture. So yeah, kids may miss tge point and pick up undesirable ideas too... which makes mr want to raise Bodhi in a bubble, which I obviously can't. (A bubble that big would be expensive and poorly ventilated.)

[demigraf]

Instead of editing the above, I'd like to just apologize for the typos. Mea culpa.

[Bridget]

Myles, I'm all for keeping them in the bubble as long as possible. Some may disagree but it's just the way I am. I want to protect their tender souls and let them soak up as much beauty and simpleness as possible to carry them through life when things get crazy.
And I guess my children are different in that they are not able to regulate themselves. Savana has told me in the past that the evilness in every movie really bothers her at night when she tries to sleep. But then she will ask to watch the latest disney movie. I turned one off a couple of weeks ago because it was too scary and both of my kids looked horrified but at the same time were saying, "No! Don't turn it off." But I did. And later Savana said she was glad I turned it off. It's like they are mesmerized by it. And both Savana and Kai are extremely sensitive to the "bad guys" in every single movie.
But I will let them watch a National Geographic show where the lions take down a zebra. That's different. And it does not bother them. In fact, they usually cheer for the predator.
Anyway, I don't know anyone in real life who has the same feelings as I do on these things. If it were up to me we'd have no tv at all. I should be living on the side of a mountain somewhere drinking my water from the stream. This newfangled world is too much for me and my kids.

Savana and I have been watching Little House on the Prairie season one from the library. My FAVE! I used to rush home from school to watch.

Books I don't see myself regulating.

[missychrissy]

I remember one of the Ramona books very clearly: where she tells her teacher her pantyhose is baggy and makes her legs look like elephants'. It was meant to be inappropriate, and she gets in trouble, but at my young age, I was so taken by the imagery (that Ramona's so sassy! so clever!) that I repeated it to MY teacher. And I got a stern lecture.

omg this is hilarious!!! Stuff like this doesn't bother me. I find it funny and I'd snort if one of my kids did that. If the teacher then called me at home, I'd tell them to read the Ramona book and just lighten up.

[daylilies]

I kind of envy your viewpoint Bridget. I don't want Josh to be sheltered but I don't want him to be influenced by media as much as he probably already is. His favorite things to do are already the ipod games and computer games. He loves to play around in the garden and go for walks and he's excited about soccer and stuff, but I wonder how much all this media and electronic stuff is going to affect how he grows up.

[demigraf]

Myles, I'm all for keeping them in the bubble as long as possible. Some may disagree but it's just the way I am. I want to protect their tender souls and let them soak up as much beauty and simpleness as possible to carry them through life when things get crazy.

Maybe we can't do a bubble, but Molly (abbeysmom) & I have talked about raising our kids on a commune. It would probably be a very high-tech commune given our proclivities and need to get on APA everyday, but also a pretty crunchy and definitely child-centered one. Would you like to join us on our fictional commune?

I had similar thoughts to the ones you just expressed, bridget, about having them soak up happiness now. Have you ever seen "What the #$%^ Do We Know"? It's pretty campy and downright corny in some parts, but the thing I took away from the movie (part fiction/part documentary) is that we can become addicted to our emotions, since the body can't distinguish between the chemical rush brought on by psychoactive drugs and the natural high one can get from feeling things like fun and love and wonder and accomplishment. And when the brain gets addicted to a feeling/sensation, it subconsciously drives us to make choices that bring us into situations that recreate the same sensations we crave. That is a really oversimplistic way to explain it. But yeah, in a nutshell, I want Bodhi to OD on joy now, so he keeps seeking it out in the future. And I guess that's why I also want to control the flow of the dark and negative stuff to his consciousness at first. I know he'll have to learn to cope with it in the future, as that's an important survival skill, but I'd rather he learn to process it after he first develops a firm happiness foundation as his baseline.

But again, what the bleep do I know?

There actually was a sequel to the movie I mentioned, which I've never seen. I'll have to remember to add it to my Netflix queue.

[Gwenn]

Myles, that's interesting and makes a lot of intuitive sense to me. I'll have to watch that movie.

I was pretty uninterested in politics/current events as a child, too, although I wasn't sheltered. My brother was 5 years older and very interested in current events, and he just couldn't understand why I wasn't. He used to make fun of me for it. I became interested when I was older. I just didn't need it as a child. Children are all different. And I think one kid will be okay with a certain thing at one age, and another kid will have a different age.

Let me be clear, though, that I don't plan to censor or forbid my kids from anything. I hope that wasn't the impression I gave. It's more that I plan to guide them in directions that I think are good for them rather than forbid them. I don't think negativity is particularly helpful, and I agree with Bobbie that it makes things more interesting. I think what started me off in that direction is that my mother RECOMMENDED that I read that book, and gave me her copy, not that she didn't prevent me from reading it.

[Ky'sMom]

I don't censor my kids from anything really, other than porn I guess. DH is not comfortable with Ky watching any movie rated higher than PG-13 and that is fine with me since I don't see the purpose of watching R rated movies.

My parents sheltered me from nothing, but really I think they were rather negligent. I watched some classic porn when I was like 10-11 years old. Cinderella comes to mind with the black guy in it who has some sort of balls (not those kind) hanging from his neck and a character ask him what they are and he tells her his breast LOL!! That movie was hilarious. Also one called Big Mama Jama or something like that with a really overweight lady. I just thought they were funny but I would NEVER let my kids watch porn. Not that my mom let me but she did leave them out and was infrequently at home due to working a lot. We also had illegal cable so got all the channels and we watched the Playboy channel almost every day. Oddly enough, they had some very interesting shows about sexually freedom and not much porn at all and most of the porn they did show was not very raunchy compared to the videos in the house we watched sometimes. I never watched them with my brother though because that would have been crazy IMO, only with my BFF at the time.

But Ky can read whatever he wants. He has read all his books and given most to Elle so now he is reading my books. He read The Secret Life of Bees a couple months ago and I had him read some excerpts from The Autobiography of Malcolm X and a biography about Frederick Douglass, which he read in the car on our roadtrip. He mostly reads adult books now. I read adult books when I was 5 and 6 so I don't see that it is a big deal. He mostly wants comic novels or Star Wars or Star Trek books as he is a sci-fi and fantasy fan. Next time we go to teh library he said he wants to read The Lord of the Ring series since he didn't know they were books.

I was always watching the news as a kid. My parents didn't inform me of current events, I just thought they were interesting and broadened my view of the world much moreso than fiction because they were real. I have vivid memories of the Ethiopian famine and Live Aid and all the hoop-la surrounding that event. I remember seeing those skinny kids with flies on their faces and being so grateful that I lived in America and had food to eat. I think that was when I decided to always be an optimist, at least I have all my limbs and food to eat, a place to live and someone who loves me - I remember thinking this when I was 5 years old in 1984 during that time.

I also have always been addicted to PBS. I loved Julia Child and that cajun man who used to say "I gay-run-tee." LOL, their accents were just fascinating. I also learned a lot watching The News Hour and Frontline and POV and Independent Lens and all kinds of documentaries. Ky is also a PBS fan and Elle is becoming one. I don't watch the local news much though as local events are much more scary (all the murders and kidnapping and home invasions) than world news. Big world events IMO are a lot of times so far removed from us that it is easier for me to explain than local current events so we stay more away from those.

Erin

[AmeriBrit]

My parents were always away working, so my brother, sister and I pretty much raised ourselves. We watched whatever we wanted and pretty much did whatever we wanted. I think my parents are lucky that we all were pretty level-headed most of the time! I do remember we watched some crazy stuff on TV and that's why I will be more vigilant with TV with my own 2 kids. On the political side of things, I remember we always watched 60 Minutes, Meet The Press and that other CBS Sunday morning political show, so I was always interested in politics. I can remember being in the 11th grade and in a history class, the teacher asked who thought it was a mistake to drop the atomic bomb on Japan and I was the only one to raise my hand....I can remember being surprised and wondered how come other people didn't think like I did.

[demigraf]

On an old familiar topic, while my parents are still in town, we are going to have dinner tonight as a big family, which includes my sister. Actually, it's her birthday, so that's technically the reason for the get-together, even though we're not on speaking terms, so I obviously didn't get her a card or present or anything.

Anyway, DH & I had a little spat this morning over whether or not he was going to have to come tonight. I told him he didn't have to go if he wasn't comfortable, but he didn't want me to have to take the train all the way home from the city just to pick up Bodhi and go back out again. He was insistent that he HAD to go, and had no choice in the matter, but that didn't stop him from pouting and acting like he resented me for forcing him to go. He claims to despise her, and just can't even be in a room with her without feeling intense hatred for her.

Anyway, I wrote him this little e-mail. Basically, I totally respect his right to handle it however he wants to. And he seems to want to go the route where he still wants to have nothing to do with my sister at all. My main problem with that is just that it puts my parents in the middle of it all. They have to shuttle between 2 houses, and divide their time between us. So I'm focusing on the fact that I don't want our problem with my sister to become their problem as well. I hope this summed up my position well:

Hi, love. OK. First of all, thank you for coming out for this, even though I know you have a lot of reasons to not go tonight. We both do. I mainly just want my parents to get to see Bodhi one more time, and it helps eliminate that whole thing with them being caught in the middle of all of it.

I've adopted the belief that the best way to deal with <sister> - in order to not become part of the problem where my parents are concerned AND to keep our blood pressure down - is to learn how to be dismissive of her. If you can be relaxed in her presence, it means she hasn't gotten to you. Just because you are in in the same room as her doesn't mean you want to be her friend or trust her further than you can throw her or think she's any less of a weasel. And if it ever comes to the point where she needs us to trust her or do anything for her, that's the right place to draw the line. Not at sharing dinner with family.

Anyway, I hope this works as a strategy going forward. I mean, short of her ever apologizing and turning a new leaf, I think this is how it's going to be.

I totally get where my DH is coming from though.

Thanks for listening to yet another ramble about my sister.

[Bridget]

I think your note sums it up nicely. You are very smart and kind, Myles.