Secular Confessions

[Bridget]

We had a seminar on 123 Magic when I worked at a preschool several years ago. It was interesting and I liked that it was consistent but I thought I remembered not liking how impersonal it was. Though at the time I was in my early 20's with no kids. Now I can see how that might actually be a positive thing but I honestly would have to revisit as I don't remember the details.
Last night dbf said, "We need to train these kids to put their toys away when they are finished playing."
First of all, TRAIN? They aren't dogs dipshmuck and second of all there's not a whole heck of a lot you can accomplish with them by barking orders from your computer chair because, again, they aren't dogs.
I wish he would just pay attention sometimes. Watch me when I come out and join them in clean up and talk to them about taking care of our toys and keeping everything in it's spot so they know where it is when they need it. They're all over that because it's relevent to them. I can't stand how he barges in on them while they are doing a puzzle and says, "You guys need to clean your rooms right now!" Of course they both start to argue with him and then he calls me in and says, "Mommy, you need to help me because they won't listen to me and I don't know what to do." So then I have to stop what I'm doing and help the kids fulfill his request before it all ends in tears and tantrums. Grrrr.
I wish I could train him.

[Cosmosmom]

First of all, TRAIN? They aren't dogs dipshmuck and second of all there's not a whole heck of a lot you can accomplish with them by barking orders from your computer chair because, again, they aren't dogs.

Well....my mom always said that puppies are like toddlers and both need to be trained. (she also says you train a husband too....) So I kind of get what he is saying. But he should watch you because obviously what you already doing with the kids is working.

And really, I have trained a dog and I can say that it was a LOT more than sitting at the computer barking orders. So if that is all he is doing...that won't work for a kid or a dog.

Oooh, maybe you treat him how he treats the kids and just bark out commands....

[MammaMia]

My DH talks about "training" Mia too. It drives me batty!

[Cosmosmom]

My DH talks about "training" Mia too. It drives me batty!

But isn't training more or less another word for teaching? Training isn't a negative thing (we use both in my profession).
I would think that an older child it wouldn't be so much training because you could definitely use more logic and reasoning. But a younger (like toddler), I do tend to think more of training myself. I would want to at the very least train a child to listen to me...if I said stop it,no, stay, come here...that they would do it. If nothing else, at least for basic safety. I'm really paranoid about things like running out into the street.....

[Cosmosmom]

My sister is coming up to visit me for the weekend tomorrow!!!! She lives about 5 hours away and I haven't seen her since October! She is almost 5 years young but I just adore her and living far apart.

[Bridget]

I'm not crazy about the word "train" for children.
He does bark orders at our dog from his chair and that works for the dog. It doesn't work for the kids. And I'm glad they expect more from him.

[3andMe]

This book does use the word train, and likens it to animal training. It talks about going from a benign dictatorship when children are very young to more of a democracy later on. I can actually see the action/consequence being very much a training device rather than interactive teaching and learning. And I would love to move toward a time when they can logically evaluate choices and pick the better one, but things like one of them running away while I'm trying to get the other one buckled into the car seat is unacceptable and not safe, and that is the kind of thing I need to get under control. I have no problem being consistent and firm, and I also think I'm very good at praising cooperation, listening, and other positive behaviors, but there are still some things they do that need to be corrected asap. They're getting worse about running away, too.

We took dh to the airport today. DS cried and begged him to take him along. "Please, Daddy, please?" I bawled on the way out of there, especially since my Pandora started playing Pink Floyd:


Daddy's flown across the ocean
Leaving just a memory
Snapshot in the family album
Daddy what else did you leave for me?

[girlwonder]

We took dh to the airport today. DS cried and begged him to take him along. "Please, Daddy, please?" I bawled on the way out of there, especially since my Pandora started playing Pink Floyd:


Daddy's flown across the ocean
Leaving just a memory
Snapshot in the family album
Daddy what else did you leave for me?

[Gwenn]

Well....my mom always said that puppies are like toddlers and both need to be trained. (she also says you train a husband too....) So I kind of get what he is saying. But he should watch you because obviously what you already doing with the kids is working.

And really, I have trained a dog and I can say that it was a LOT more than sitting at the computer barking orders. So if that is all he is doing...that won't work for a kid or a dog.

Oooh, maybe you treat him how he treats the kids and just bark out commands....

While I do understand the negative reactions to "train," when I trained Nero I spent months working with him, on my hands and knees on the floor, hugging, positive behavioral support, etc. It was very much like working with a very young child. He is a very loving dog and always gives me kisses when I come home. For the most part he's very well behaved except he has a hard time controlling himself when food is involved. He was like that as a very young puppy, too, to the point where I had to leave food out for him all the time as he would go crazy if his bowl was empty. Gwennie is DH's dog and I left her training up to him ... and she has issues. It took us years before she was fully housebroken, does not follow any commands, and she refuses to kiss me. Very sweet and loving, though, but we suspect she may have been abused as she has major attachment issues.

One thing I do regret now is that when the puppies were little I didn't know all the strategies I use working with nonverbal children, particularly regards to signs and visual supports. I would love to try training dogs that way to see how they responded. Which is not in any way to say that working with my kids is like working with a dog ... just that I would like to try the reverse. I actually read an article about a speech pathologist who retired and raised ducks and actually was teaching herself duck communication! It cracks me up because I am constantly checking how well my dogs communicate.

This book does use the word train, and likens it to animal training. It talks about going from a benign dictatorship when children are very young to more of a democracy later on. I can actually see the action/consequence being very much a training device rather than interactive teaching and learning. And I would love to move toward a time when they can logically evaluate choices and pick the better one, but things like one of them running away while I'm trying to get the other one buckled into the car seat is unacceptable and not safe, and that is the kind of thing I need to get under control. I have no problem being consistent and firm, and I also think I'm very good at praising cooperation, listening, and other positive behaviors, but there are still some things they do that need to be corrected asap. They're getting worse about running away, too.

Haven't read the book so I don't have an opinion but analyzing actions/behaviors/consequences and how they interact is a core piece of positive behavior support. I spend a lot of my time focusing on behaviors in that way and I do so in a very positive manner. I would never use the word dictatorship, but I am teaching them the consequences of their actions at the same time as I am assessing their needs and the purposes of their current behaviors. Hope that makes sense.

We took dh to the airport today. DS cried and begged him to take him along. "Please, Daddy, please?" I bawled on the way out of there, especially since my Pandora started playing Pink Floyd:


Daddy's flown across the ocean
Leaving just a memory
Snapshot in the family album
Daddy what else did you leave for me?

[MammaMia]

But isn't training more or less another word for teaching? Training isn't a negative thing (we use both in my profession).
I would think that an older child it wouldn't be so much training because you could definitely use more logic and reasoning. But a younger (like toddler), I do tend to think more of training myself. I would want to at the very least train a child to listen to me...if I said stop it,no, stay, come here...that they would do it. If nothing else, at least for basic safety. I'm really paranoid about things like running out into the street.....

I see your point - I usually don't get too caught up in semantics when it comes to stuff like this.

That said, "training" has connotations that I don't like when used in this context. It oversimplifies things and makes it sound as if teaching your kids to do something is as easy as training a dog to sit. Parenting is nowhere near as simple as that.

[Bean]

We took dh to the airport today. DS cried and begged him to take him along. "Please, Daddy, please?" I bawled on the way out of there, especially since my Pandora started playing Pink Floyd:


Daddy's flown across the ocean
Leaving just a memory
Snapshot in the family album
Daddy what else did you leave for me?

Oh lord, that brought tears to my eyes. Don't... blink....

[MammaMia]

Big hugs Lydia! I hope the time flies by!

[daylilies]

I think I missed it...why is your DH leaving, Lydia?

[3andMe]

I think I missed it...why is your DH leaving, Lydia?

It's just a business trip. He's going for almost three weeks to India, and if he finishes up his work sooner, he'll go to Nepal or tour some of the remote tribal areas for a few days.

Then he's going for a week to another conference 10 days after my C-Section in May. And Australia for two weeks in September. He loves the travel, so I can't begrudge him. I would do it in a heartbeat if I could. I just miss him so much! And it's so much harder now that the children very obviously miss him and ask about him.

[daylilies]

Yikes! Well good for you for handling all that time without him.
(I figured it wasn't anything drastic...I would hope I wouldn't miss you saying something like that! LOL)

[Cosmosmom]

I'm not crazy about the word "train" for children.
He does bark orders at our dog from his chair and that works for the dog. It doesn't work for the kids. And I'm glad they expect more from him.

But did you get your dog as an older dog, right? I mean I can tell Cosmo what to do NOW and she generally listens (though she gets a warning and if I have to say something a third time I use my I mean business voice and she will listen at that point). But she is 6.5 years old. When she was in her toddler phase, it was a MUCH different story. I worked with her a lot, physically showing her what to do and giving praise when she got it right. I thought a lot of effort when she was a puppy would give me a grown up dog that listens pretty good most of the time.

Of course I don't see training as a bad or negative thing (I train people all day at work....adults, teens, volunteers).
But if you do and have told him, he's a butthead for not respecting that.

[Cosmosmom]

While I do understand the negative reactions to "train," when I trained Nero I spent months working with him, on my hands and knees on the floor, hugging, positive behavioral support, etc. It was very much like working with a very young child. He is a very loving dog and always gives me kisses when I come home. For the most part he's very well behaved except he has a hard time controlling himself when food is involved. He was like that as a very young puppy, too, to the point where I had to leave food out for him all the time as he would go crazy if his bowl was empty.:

Awww your Nero sounds like my Cosmo! My girl is smaller at only 20 lbs and most of the time she is my lap, and she likes to lay on my chest with her head on my heart. Sometimes she will be playing, look at me and run over and up on my lap, put her paws on my shoulders and give me a few kisses before jumping off and going back to playing. And she will look me straight in the eyes and stare at me.
her issues are not walking on the leash well (totally my fault because we don't go out on one regularly because she has a litter box....and going nuts when someone comes to the door.

I wanted a baby but were poor and just married so we got a dog. I treated her like a my baby.
6.5 years later, still want a baby but think that I can talk DH into a new puppy in a year or two if no baby. I like to have projects and things to obsess over (too bad I can't ever seem to get it to be exercise!)...right now I have the house. But a puppy does give me something to focus on and mother...I actually kind of like that phase and all those hours each day teaching and training and bonding.
Thinking of maybe another cockapoo or a sheltie......

[Cosmosmom]

It's just a business trip. He's going for almost three weeks to India, and if he finishes up his work sooner, he'll go to Nepal or tour some of the remote tribal areas for a few days.

Then he's going for a week to another conference 10 days after my C-Section in May. And Australia for two weeks in September. He loves the travel, so I can't begrudge him. I would do it in a heartbeat if I could. I just miss him so much! And it's so much harder now that the children very obviously miss him and ask about him.

That is so hard! Mine had a job for a year where he traveled and I HATED it. I'm not independent enough to not have him around...thankfully he feels the same way or he might be annoyed with me.

Where in India? My BFF is married to a man from India and they just got back from visiting his family last month in Calcutta.
Nepal would be interesting...it was one of the countries we were going to adopt from (kept going back and forth between Nepal and Colombia).

[Gwenn]

Awww your Nero sounds like my Cosmo! My girl is smaller at only 20 lbs and most of the time she is my lap, and she likes to lay on my chest with her head on my heart. Sometimes she will be playing, look at me and run over and up on my lap, put her paws on my shoulders and give me a few kisses before jumping off and going back to playing. And she will look me straight in the eyes and stare at me.
her issues are not walking on the leash well (totally my fault because we don't go out on one regularly because she has a litter box....and going nuts when someone comes to the door.

Nero's 80 lbs and will lay his nose on my lap or the arm of my chair, or sniff up at me to get me to bend down so he can say hello. On weekdays when I'm at work he sleeps in front of the door until I come home. He actually goes out there before I leave in the morning so I would think he just likes that spot but he doesn't go there on weekends! It's very sweet. Although it does make it difficult to come through the door!

[stephmama]

Oh Lydia, you brought me back to dropping Dan off at the airport. I never want to do that again.



It's been a stressful few days. Decisions, decisions.

[Gwenn]

DH was just reading something online and told me that according to some article that was just published, King Tut was born with a cleft palate and a club foot. Wow ... that changes my whole mental picture somehow. I just can't imagine an ancient king with a craniofacial difference like that. Isn't that wild?

[3andMe]

Where in India? My BFF is married to a man from India and they just got back from visiting his family last month in Calcutta.
Nepal would be interesting...it was one of the countries we were going to adopt from (kept going back and forth between Nepal and Colombia).

Hyderabad and Bangalore. I'm just glad he was able to combine two different work events into one trip, considering the length of the flights. At about 10:30 tonight he told me to think of him as he was flying over the North Pole.

Interesting about King Tut! I never knew. I found this from an older article, and at that point they didn't know what caused his death, but said he could have gotten an infection from a fracture.

The boy king also had a slight cleft palate, which was not however associated with an external expression, like a hair-lip, or other facial deformities. He also had large incisor teeth and the typical overbite characteristic of other kings from his family. His lower teeth were also slightly misaligned.

The more recent articles discuss how they did DNA sampling to find out that he had a virulent form of malaria, so that's probably what did him in. No foul play. They're also trying to trace relatives, and found out his parents were brother/sister.

[Cosmosmom]

Nero's 80 lbs and will lay his nose on my lap or the arm of my chair, or sniff up at me to get me to bend down so he can say hello. On weekdays when I'm at work he sleeps in front of the door until I come home. He actually goes out there before I leave in the morning so I would think he just likes that spot but he doesn't go there on weekends! It's very sweet. Although it does make it difficult to come through the door!

Awww! Cos does that too when I leave so I have been told. Even at my parents and she loves her grandma and grandpa...when I leave, she sits and watches the door until I come back. She keeps looking for me for days. Makes it hard for us to travel but she is worth it!

[Gwenn]

Interesting about King Tut! I never knew. I found this from an older article, and at that point they didn't know what caused his death, but said he could have gotten an infection from a fracture.



The more recent articles discuss how they did DNA sampling to find out that he had a virulent form of malaria, so that's probably what did him in. No foul play. They're also trying to trace relatives, and found out his parents were brother/sister.

I knew brother/sister marriages were common among ancient Egyptian royalty. Which perhaps explains the cleft palate and the club foot.

Actually that combination is present in many syndromes. I wonder if he had other issues such as heart defects? I don't suppose anyone will ever know.

I had a student once who stuttered and his parents (who were from another country) told me they were first cousins. Recently I saw a news article saying that they had identified the location of a genetic mutation that leads to stuttering (they knew it ran in families, but didn't understand the transmission before). The interesting part was they found the gene by studying members of a family from this student's country, where cousin marriages are common. I have to wonder if he's related to that family.

[Bridget]

But did you get your dog as an older dog, right? I mean I can tell Cosmo what to do NOW and she generally listens (though she gets a warning and if I have to say something a third time I use my I mean business voice and she will listen at that point). But she is 6.5 years old. When she was in her toddler phase, it was a MUCH different story. I worked with her a lot, physically showing her what to do and giving praise when she got it right. I thought a lot of effort when she was a puppy would give me a grown up dog that listens pretty good most of the time.

Of course I don't see training as a bad or negative thing (I train people all day at work....adults, teens, volunteers).
But if you do and have told him, he's a butthead for not respecting that.

He was 8 months old. We did a lot of the training. But I think my point is being missed. I was talking about my kids, not my dog. I don't see training as a bad or negative thing either. There was a lot more to my post than the word "training". I was just venting for a minute.
Lydia - Huge hugs. I hope these three weeks fly by for you.

[MammaMia]

Mia has her first ear infection and I have to give her nasty tasting antibiotics. Unfortunately, this coincides with a non-eating stage, so mixing the meds in with food doesn't really work. We tried last night with ice cream and she ate like 2 spoonfuls and didn't want any more (which is how she is with all foods & drinks at the moment). So this morning I mixed it in with just a little sugar & cream and basically had to hold her down and squirt it down her throat. It really sucked. We have to do this twice a day for the next two weeks. I hope she isn't permanently traumatised by it.

[daylilies]

Wait a minute...there is no way Oso is Jack Black...Josh is listening to it right now!
I know he has been on Yo Gabba Gabba though.
Sorry about the medicine troubles Sarah

[Cosmosmom]

Mia has her first ear infection and I have to give her nasty tasting antibiotics. Unfortunately, this coincides with a non-eating stage, so mixing the meds in with food doesn't really work. We tried last night with ice cream and she ate like 2 spoonfuls and didn't want any more (which is how she is with all foods & drinks at the moment). So this morning I mixed it in with just a little sugar & cream and basically had to hold her down and squirt it down her throat. It really sucked. We have to do this twice a day for the next two weeks. I hope she isn't permanently traumatised by it.

Awww, poor Mia. I just saw a mom having to do that at work last week (I'm in the clinic lobby and pharmacy is right across from me). Poor little guy HAD to have the medicine and boy was he protesting. I felt so bad for the mom and little boy.

[Cosmosmom]

Just got back from dermatology and had my first skin check...so far so good.

[Jenny]

Sean Astin (from Goonies) is the voice of Special Agent Oso.


Hugs Lydia. You are a strong woman and such a supportive wife.