Secular Confessions

[Bridget]

Bridget & Kate - lying about ridiculous things can be a form of emotional abuse known as "crazy making". The idea is that they do it to make you start questioning your own perceptions and feelings. For example, they'll do something, then deny it so emphatically that you'll start to think that you're the crazy one. They're often not even aware that they're doing this - they just do it automatically.



He's not delusional, he's a manipulative jerk. He got caught in a lie then tried to backpedal and guilt trip you for calling him on it. It's so transparent it's almost funny. I'm glad you're able to see through his bs!

Thank you for the hugs. It's gotten even more ridiculous. He didn't want to tell me he was where he was because "I make him feel stupid for going to a bar during the day" and when I tell him he's lost perception of the line between truth and lies he tells me, "I made him feel like S*** and he can't believe I think that about him."
It makes sense what you say about the "crazy making". He told me from the day I met him that his ex-wife was crazy. Of course I trusted and believed him that she really was. I heard from multiple mutual friends that they had crazy fights all the time. She was a lot more unstable and insecure than I am and I think because of those traits she possessed, he made her crazy.
She tried to warn me about him when I ran into her one night. Of course I didn't listen because I thought she was

[daylilies]

So if they aren't even aware that they do it, why do they do it? You mean they aren't really trying to make us feel like we're crazy?

[sunrider]

I confess my mother is now trying to convert me. I knew that she was more religious since Gram's stroke (yikes, almost 3 years ago). But she not tried to actively convert me until now.

I am not looking forward to future conversations. I have severed ties with friends because of religious and/or political differences, and lost touch with other family because of religion. I love my mother terribly and we have a pretty close friendship too. She has long known my beliefs, or lack thereof . . . . I don't get sudden urge to convert me. My only guess is her own sense of mortality, as she has to have knee surgery soon and is talking about writing her will.

I worry about your health and the stresses you have to deal with daily. I worry about Jonathan too. You are the strong one in the family. Oh, Jonathan may be big and muscular and able to lift a side of dressed Angus by himself but you are the one who is strong in spirit. You are smart, analytical, determined, flexible, have big eyes and plenty of heart. (I threw the big eyes in just to see if you were paying attention.) I remember when you did the leg work for the eggheads on the bird study. You tumbled down cliffs, were eaten alive by insects and were bird pecked enough to leak if you weren’t already self-sealing. You have known a lot of jerks in your life and have been handed a lot of injustices but you always seem to persevere. You know, you don’t have to throw your brains in the trashcan to believe in God. There are a lot of bright people out there who do, including scientists and Doctors. Maybe, just maybe, you need to give him your burdens for awhile. Since Mother’s stroke, I have had a relationship with God that I would have never believed 15 years ago. Go somewhere quiet and tell him your troubles. He already knows all about you and what you are worrying about. He wants you to talk to him about them. Afterwards, just sit quietly and meditate for awhile. Peace can come to your soul and sometimes answers come to your head. Sometimes, the answer comes by way of a phone call or a visitor or something you happen to read. You may feel silly at first but I think you should give prayer a chance. It can bring you some peace and some guidance for your problems.

[daylilies]

Well she does have a way with words! LOL

[sunrider]

I think what bothers me most is her idea that I think only stupid people believe in god. I have no idea where that came from, have never thought that, never implied that.

[daylilies]

I'm not really sure why she thinks you need a god to lean on when she pointed out that you've dealt with all the jerks, insects, cliffs and birds in your life without a god.

[Bridget]

Did she raise you to be God fearing, or whatever? I mean, this is a new thing for her right?
I hope it doesn't impact your relationship with her. She clearly holds you in very high regard by everything she said so she should trust that you've thought this one out a bit.
And she also clearly wants to take some of your stress away. Maybe just mention to her that having these conversations with her just adds to your stress level.
My mom has made comments before like, "I know you think my church is stupid..." And I'm like . Far from it! I think her church is awesome. They have a homosexual priest. They support organic gardens for low income neighborhoods, they build homes for Habitat for Humanity, had built and will build schools in Haiti. I mean if there was ever a church I'd go to, this one would be it.
So I know how you feel there. I hate that she thinks I look down on any of her choices. Not even.

[sunrider]

No, not at all. Neither she nor gram went to church when I was little other than for weddings and funerals. She sent me with her brother's family to the Baptist church up the hill to attend Sunday school, until I was maybe 5-6 years old?

In most of her adult life she was never particularly religious. My grandmother had a stroke - I think it will be 3 years the end of March. Once her hospital and nursing home stay ended (because of stupid insurance rules), mother took on the caregiving burden with gram. She's mostly wheelchair bound, but can use a walker to transition to potty and bed. Mother has hired "nurses" to care for her during the day while she's at work (they are a lesbian couple from a local Methodist church). I have noticed god creeping in here and there in the last year or two.

It's the brain in the trashcan to believe in god comment that really bothers me. I've been trying to remember years of conversations to figure out where she could have inferred that's my opinion. I'm at a total loss.

And she also clearly wants to take some of your stress away. Maybe just mention to her that having these conversations with her just adds to your stress level.

Excellent point - I shall use that. Thanks!

[MammaMia]

So if they aren't even aware that they do it, why do they do it? You mean they aren't really trying to make us feel like we're crazy?

Good question! I wish I knew the answer. Why does an abusive person do any of the things they do? I guess some people are so used to it (perhaps because of how they were raised) that they just do it automatically. Or maybe they're conscious of it at some level, but don't admit it to themselves. Then there are people who actually do it fully consciously and intentionally.

I think what bothers me most is her idea that I think only stupid people believe in god. I have no idea where that came from, have never thought that, never implied that.

That's a shame. Looking on the bright side, maybe this is a good opportunity to discuss things and get it out in the open and clear up any misconceptions she has about you & your beliefs (or lack thereof).

[The10Eels]

I confess

I miss you ladies like CRAZY! I have been working the opening shift (6:45am - supposed to be 3, but has been more like 4 or 4:30) and by the time I get home I just want to love on my girls so the computer has taken a back seat!

School is SO boring right now! Nothing but bookwork for the first 4 weeks or so, THEN we get to break out the needles and start the fun stuff!!

[WillowSpy]

I confess

I miss you ladies like CRAZY! I have been working the opening shift (6:45am - supposed to be 3, but has been more like 4 or 4:30) and by the time I get home I just want to love on my girls so the computer has taken a back seat!

School is SO boring right now! Nothing but bookwork for the first 4 weeks or so, THEN we get to break out the needles and start the fun stuff!!

Reading your post... YOU ARE DOING SO AWESOME!!!! Work, school... my gosh, if I ever end up being a single mom you will be my friggin idol.

[Gwenn]

I don't understand it, Mandy. What on earth does "Random moment" mean? Is that when you're supposed to stop working because you can't bill any longer? And yes, I'd have her explain it further since "you couldn't understand it" (I'm picturing her making air quotes with her fingers). And I wouldn't argue about it, just say that you didn't understand it since the study was talking about your time after hours. If that is actually the case.

Of course, look who's talking here. I probably shouldn't give advice right now, after the mess I got into by speaking up at work.

I don't understand what a "random moment" is either.

Tred keeps having to do these time studies and they are driving him nuts. I will be glad when Bipolar Cathy is no longer his supervisor. It can't come too soon.

I don't entirely understand the process, but they ask random people to state what they were doing at random times and the district gets reimbursed if we are spending the right amount of time engaged in "billable" activities. At least, I think that's how it works. She said because schools have different hours she can't personalize the schedules but my understanding is district wide contract hours end at 3:30. She said she just put everyone in for 7:45 to 4:45, but I can't think who would be involved in direct student contact at 4:45? Makes absolutely no sense to me. You'd think they'd want to concentrate the hours to increase the percentage of billable "moments."

And DH said when I write up how I spent that minute, I should say I was checking the clock! I'm tempted! She told me I can state what I was doing if I'm still at work even after hours, but I was just writing therapy notes and that isn't billable, so what does it matter to her?

[maggie]

That sounds like a bizarre and stupid process Mandy. What a waste of time, and what a good way to get a bad estimate of billable hours. I can't believe she thought people would understand that process without more explanation. Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaumb.

[Gwenn]

That sounds like a bizarre and stupid process Mandy.

That pretty much sums up my opinion of much of what the school administration asks us to do!

[Cosmosmom]

So if they aren't even aware that they do it, why do they do it? You mean they aren't really trying to make us feel like we're crazy?

You know I can kind of see why someone would lie. It might be that they are doing something that they know that they shouldn't and feel guilty about it. Be it cheating, eating/drinking things they know that they shouldn't, being places that they wouldn't want to admit.
It could be that someone is trying to avoid a fight.

I remember once in college I had missed some classes and DH (boyfriend at the time) was getting annoyed about it. he asked if I went to class that day and I said yes even thought I hadn't. (my grades were great so that wasn't an issue). I did it because I felt bad I missed class, I didn't want him to be disappointed in me and I didn't want to fight.

[Cosmosmom]

I confess

I miss you ladies like CRAZY! I have been working the opening shift (6:45am - supposed to be 3, but has been more like 4 or 4:30) and by the time I get home I just want to love on my girls so the computer has taken a back seat!

School is SO boring right now! Nothing but bookwork for the first 4 weeks or so, THEN we get to break out the needles and start the fun stuff!!

OMG, I wouldn't be online at all if I had that schedule! You are doing so great and have your priorities right.

School, well that can often be boring. I felt that way about pretty much most of my library classes in grad school. But the job is definitely better than the school work. Hopefully you will have more fun once you start more of the actual job things!

[Cosmosmom]

That sounds like a bizarre and stupid process Mandy. What a waste of time, and what a good way to get a bad estimate of billable hours. I can't believe she thought people would understand that process without more explanation. Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaumb.

That is what I was just thinking!

[maggie]

You know I can kind of see why someone would lie. It might be that they are doing something that they know that they shouldn't and feel guilty about it. Be it cheating, eating/drinking things they know that they shouldn't, being places that they wouldn't want to admit.
It could be that someone is trying to avoid a fight.

I remember once in college I had missed some classes and DH (boyfriend at the time) was getting annoyed about it. he asked if I went to class that day and I said yes even thought I hadn't. (my grades were great so that wasn't an issue). I did it because I felt bad I missed class, I didn't want him to be disappointed in me and I didn't want to fight.

I think that is why most people lie, but its different with someone who *always* lies. Imagine lying so often that you do it without thinking, before thinking, when its totally unnecessary, and then lying again to cover up the first stupid lie. Imagine also lying for fun, and to fool people, and get your way when you're in the wrong, etc. That is the picture of what it was like being with this person. You don't trust *yourself* after a while, much less the other person. How can you? You know that some things are lies, but you just wonder about others that you aren't sure about, and wonder if you're crazy or stupid for not being able to tell the difference. I did think I was going nuts for a while, and I may have been well on my way.

I don't think you can really understand the craziness by comparing this kind of lying (again, in the case that I lived) with regular person lying, anymore than you can compare an alcoholic drinking to a normal person drinking. Its just too different.

Wow, sorry for the rantcast there. I haven't thought about that time in my life much in a looooooong time. And its weird, because it was really ****ed up, but I usually remember that guy very fondly and as that being a very fun-filled couple of years. But exhausting.

[Bridget]

I think that is why most people lie, but its different with someone who *always* lies. Imagine lying so often that you do it without thinking, before thinking, when its totally unnecessary, and then lying again to cover up the first stupid lie. Imagine also lying for fun, and to fool people, and get your way when you're in the wrong, etc. That is the picture of what it was like being with this person. You don't trust *yourself* after a while, much less the other person. How can you? You know that some things are lies, but you just wonder about others that you aren't sure about, and wonder if you're crazy or stupid for not being able to tell the difference. I did think I was going nuts for a while, and I may have been well on my way.

I don't think you can really understand the craziness by comparing this kind of lying (again, in the case that I lived) with regular person lying, anymore than you can compare an alcoholic drinking to a normal person drinking. Its just too different.

Wow, sorry for the rantcast there. I haven't thought about that time in my life much in a looooooong time. And its weird, because it was really ****ed up, but I usually remember that guy very fondly and as that being a very fun-filled couple of years. But exhausting.

Yup.

[shutterbird]

You lie once, you have to come up with ten more lies to cover it up. At least, that's what my grandmother always said.

Mandy, I don't get the "random moment" either...

Hi Ashley! You are missed!

I confess I'm completely irked. I'm done trying to keep relationships with people who obviously don't want to talk to me/respond/call back. What-ev-er.

[MammaMia]

I think that is why most people lie, but its different with someone who *always* lies. Imagine lying so often that you do it without thinking, before thinking, when its totally unnecessary, and then lying again to cover up the first stupid lie. Imagine also lying for fun, and to fool people, and get your way when you're in the wrong, etc. That is the picture of what it was like being with this person. You don't trust *yourself* after a while, much less the other person. How can you? You know that some things are lies, but you just wonder about others that you aren't sure about, and wonder if you're crazy or stupid for not being able to tell the difference. I did think I was going nuts for a while, and I may have been well on my way.

I don't think you can really understand the craziness by comparing this kind of lying (again, in the case that I lived) with regular person lying, anymore than you can compare an alcoholic drinking to a normal person drinking. Its just too different.

Wow, sorry for the rantcast there. I haven't thought about that time in my life much in a looooooong time. And its weird, because it was really ****ed up, but I usually remember that guy very fondly and as that being a very fun-filled couple of years. But exhausting.

Word.

[MammaMia]

I confess I'm completely irked. I'm done trying to keep relationships with people who obviously don't want to talk to me/respond/call back. What-ev-er.

I'm sorry Kim, flaky people suck.

I confess, I can't believe my baby is going to be 2 tomorrow!

[addysonreese]

First time joining this thread. Hope you don't mind I'm popping in.

I confess that I still think about a certain someone who did something horrible to me last year, and hope that he'll eventually apologize.. even though deep inside I know he won't.

[daylilies]

Well I quoted what Cosmosmom said and then Maggie said what I was going to say..so nevermind LOL

First time joining this thread. Hope you don't mind I'm popping in.

I confess that I still think about a certain someone who did something horrible to me last year, and hope that he'll eventually apologize.. even though deep inside I know he won't.

how's it going?
I hope he does apologize..and whatever it was I'm sorry.
Ok can I just go on a little NKOTB rant here?
It really kind of sucks to like a band most people don't like and who wouldn't be caught dead at a concert of..they are doing a ton of crazy cool things lately and I end up having to go by myself or hook up with a bunch of people I don't know who are just looking for people to fill their group. I wish I were outgoing and could just make friends with random people.

They're having a free screening of their new DVD in a movie theater in New York tomorrow. Not the city but a town outside it. Thinking at least one person I know would go and I could go with them, I sent in the e mail for the lottery to win a ticket. I won a ticket, but nobody I know is going! What the heck!
I know I'll be fine once the show starts but it's going to be really sad driving up and back alone, and being by myself before and after the show.

I just feel like such a loser. LOL But in my own defense the way they gave away the tickets was kind of lame. If people wanted to go together they had to assume all of them would win tickets. And they didn't send me my confirmation until last night. If I'd lived far away that wouldn't give me a lot of time for travel plans. I guess it was their way to lessen the demand. But I didn't really think it was fair.

Ah, the things I do for those guys...LOL

[daylilies]

Oh, also, I used to lie a lot when I was a kid. I had a lot of medical problems and my mom was not great at handling it when I used to forget a pill or something. She'd get mad because she was concerned for my health. So I figured if I lied she wouldn't get mad.

Also my mom had some mental imbalances especially after my dad left so she'd fly off the handle for no reason at all. I used to plan out whole conversations with her in my head to see if I thought she'd get mad at anything I was going to say, and I'd change it around so I'd say all the right things. It worked, most of the time. I used to think I was pretty good at lying, or not saying certain things.

[addysonreese]

how's it going?
I hope he does apologize..and whatever it was I'm sorry.
Ok can I just go on a little NKOTB rant here?
It really kind of sucks to like a band most people don't like and who wouldn't be caught dead at a concert of..they are doing a ton of crazy cool things lately and I end up having to go by myself or hook up with a bunch of people I don't know who are just looking for people to fill their group. I wish I were outgoing and could just make friends with random people.

They're having a free screening of their new DVD in a movie theater in New York tomorrow. Not the city but a town outside it. Thinking at least one person I know would go and I could go with them, I sent in the e mail for the lottery to win a ticket. I won a ticket, but nobody I know is going! What the heck!
I know I'll be fine once the show starts but it's going to be really sad driving up and back alone, and being by myself before and after the show.

I just feel like such a loser. LOL But in my own defense the way they gave away the tickets was kind of lame. If people wanted to go together they had to assume all of them would win tickets. And they didn't send me my confirmation until last night. If I'd lived far away that wouldn't give me a lot of time for travel plans. I guess it was their way to lessen the demand. But I didn't really think it was fair.

Ah, the things I do for those guys...LOL

Things are going well! And he really won't apologize.. he's a lot of words I can't say on APA lol.. but there's no closure so it's constantly nagging at me, KWIM?

And that's so awesome you get to go see NKOTB! I know what you mean about going to and from the concert alone.. but just go ahead and blast their music in the car and sing along loudly! I used to do that back in high school when I went to an 'NSync concert

[daylilies]

Things are going well! And he really won't apologize.. he's a lot of words I can't say on APA lol.. but there's no closure so it's constantly nagging at me, KWIM?

And that's so awesome you get to go see NKOTB! I know what you mean about going to and from the concert alone.. but just go ahead and blast their music in the car and sing along loudly! I used to do that back in high school when I went to an 'NSync concert

Oh I will!

[Cosmosmom]

I think that is why most people lie, but its different with someone who *always* lies. Imagine lying so often that you do it without thinking, before thinking, when its totally unnecessary, and then lying again to cover up the first stupid lie. Imagine also lying for fun, and to fool people, and get your way when you're in the wrong, etc. That is the picture of what it was like being with this person. You don't trust *yourself* after a while, much less the other person. How can you? You know that some things are lies, but you just wonder about others that you aren't sure about, and wonder if you're crazy or stupid for not being able to tell the difference. I did think I was going nuts for a while, and I may have been well on my way.

I don't think you can really understand the craziness by comparing this kind of lying (again, in the case that I lived) with regular person lying, anymore than you can compare an alcoholic drinking to a normal person drinking. Its just too different.

Wow, sorry for the rantcast there. I haven't thought about that time in my life much in a looooooong time. And its weird, because it was really ****ed up, but I usually remember that guy very fondly and as that being a very fun-filled couple of years. But exhausting.

Good points! And really I felt sooo guilty about lying to DH about going to class that it has stuck in my mind all these years...that must have been like 10-11 years ago now.

I was just thinking about in terms of why somoene would lie in general. Or why I have done that in the past.

I don't know what it is like to be with someone like that. My DH literally cannot lie. In 12 years I have never known him to lie once. Most of the time this is great....BUT because he cannot bs at all, this really hurt him career wise. Like if they ask about say excel skills....I would say that he knows the program and is knowledgeable in it. He wouldn't and won't say that he is knowledgeable because he doesn't feel like he's an expert. Ugggg! I have tried coaching him and saying that saying things like having knowledge or having experience with soemthing doesn't mean that you are saying you are an expert.

[Cosmosmom]

I confess I'm completely irked. I'm done trying to keep relationships with people who obviously don't want to talk to me/respond/call back. What-ev-er.

I HATE that. And that is the reason why I'm really only friends still with one girl from high school. I'm sorry but the whole I'm so busy thing doesn't cut it. Everyone is busy but it doesn't take THAT much time to send a quick email once in a while or a quick phone call. A relationship is a two way street.

[daylilies]

You lie once, you have to come up with ten more lies to cover it up. At least, that's what my grandmother always said.

Mandy, I don't get the "random moment" either...

Hi Ashley! You are missed!

I confess I'm completely irked. I'm done trying to keep relationships with people who obviously don't want to talk to me/respond/call back. What-ev-er.

All my 'friends' seem to do that too.