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I'm with you Erin-I don't care for the young kids to have homework. Heck, I get bent when my older girls have 'too much' of it. If they're doing homework from 3:30-8 or later, that's too much. Sydney's 4th grade teacher was awful about assigning homework. I wondered if she allowed for any work to be done during class time at all because there was so much of it.
I think homework is a terrible idea for kids under nine or so. It doesn't help them at all - it's just extra torture. Weird. I guess the only benefit of it is that it would get the parents more involved in what the kid is learning?
Chrissy and L :hugs: to both of you. It's hard when your surrounded by adults that don't undestand :hugs:
L I hope DS feels better soon :(
Okay so your stubborn too :P Good to know :winks:Quote:
Originally Posted by girlwonder
Oh my those sound yummy, feel free to ship some cupcakes my way :D:bellyrubs:
Suja, :( for your papa. I'm sorry. It must be hard to know what the right thing to do is in that situation.
Bridget, scratching my head right now at your DBF's latest assumption. Hmmm.
Kate, poor little Josh! It is really sad when kids are dismissed as faking sickness or injury. L is right, that - if they're not really sick - they're feeling needy for some reason or another. For the record, B must have picked up "I've got a tummy ache" from school at some point and uses the phrase regularly now while putting on this really dramatic voice. And inwardly I have started to assume "that ain't real", and the truth is he probably is faking. What I usually do is ask him if he can wiggle his toes (which he does). And then I ask him if he can wiggle his nose (which he does, and by this time a smile is forming). And then I ask if his tummy hurts too much to do this?!? And I dance around like crazy (and he follows me and starts laughing). I figure if he's well enough to play that little game, he must not be so bad off. I feel like I can tell when he's really not feeling well.
L, I hope your littles (AND YOU!) start to feel better. The 3 of us are going to a groom/bride shower tomorrow in Alameda and I'm going to try to get DH to go to the John Muir exhibit at the Oakland Museum of CA beforehand around 11am. I know you said you are super busy and in need of some rest, but I thought I'd let you know I'd be in your neck of the woods again so - even if we can't meet up - we can at least give each other a mental wave while I'm nearby.
I don't know about anyone else, but I don't have 4+ hours to spend helping with homework. I honestly don't know how kids do the extracurricular activities and have time to be involved with their families because homework takes up so much time. It's a minimum 2 hours every single night for all 3 of my girls. Usually longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by girlwonder
If they were in sports, they wouldn't get home till 6 o'clock on practice night (later on game night). Eat dinner, 2 hours worth of homework...and when do you talk with your parents? Dinner time isn't enough imo. Maybe I'm just selfish. :P
Erin-you got me started!! lol
It looks like we were all posting at once. :D
Katy, I'll bet that banner is going to look super cute and festive for Jojo's party. And it'll match your front door too. :D It sounds like it's going to be a yummy and fun day for you and all your guests.
On homework, awhile back, a friend asked me to go see this documentary
with her that was basically about academic pressure:
http://www.racetonowhere.com/
It was really eye-opening, especially because I started off dismissing the film as just some rich parents complaining about too much pressure on their kids to be Ivy League material. But in the end, they were able to make the message more global about how children are adversely affected by tough schooling and demanding extracurriculars - basically too much structure and not enough play. One of the most interesting things I learned in the movie was about the "Stop Homework" project. I haven't completely decided if I'm totally anti-homework, but the statistics they gave comparing the US with countries that have less homework were pretty interesting if they correctly attributed the results to the right causes. I think the movie is worth checking out at least once. Erin, maybe you and that crazy teacher should watch it and then compare notes.
I'm familiar with that racetonowhere, but I can't for the life of me remember if I've watched it or not. I'll have to make time this weekend and watch it (again).
That looks wonderful! How long does it last you?? I have a mild case of psoriasis that gets worse during the winter and that sounds like it would really help it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Suja
Suja, I forgot to mention that I had a mammogram yesterday. It wasn't as bad as everyone says it is, except that they squeezed a rib into the crusher as well as my boobs. I asked her if she knew there was a bone in there, and she said yes. And I always use glycerine soap. It's not as perfumey and it doesn't leave a weird film on me or dry my skin out.
My preschoolers have homework, and I know they will have homework at the elementary school, but I know it won't be as bad as some schools. Recent preschool homework included "Bring in a fire safety rule written on a paper flame." It is really fun to see what all the different kids come up with. There is a big wall of different flames with safety rules at school, and then they dress up in fireman outfits and do fire drills and tour a fire station. The funniest rule I saw was "Don't eat the yellow snow." I would love to see how that one came up as a fire safety rule. And I like how that makes us start talking about things.
The kindergarten teacher gave an example of a week's homework: "Call your grandparent or an older person and ask him or her what school was like when he or she was young." That's the kind of homework I can handle, too. I have also heard that more homework does not contribute to academic success. Some things, like bigger projects, or working on problems or reports or reading outside of class, I can see as being important, but not until older.
Bridget, I rarely give my kids bandaids unless something is actively continuing to bleed and might get clothes or furniture messy. I have always taught them that cleaning with soap and water is the most important thing. They're also really good at giving each other kisses on their owies if I have my hands full.
Mylah, I have been thinking about going to the Oakland Museum lately because the weather has turned crappy, but I have decided to not take my kids out around other people. I even canceled their swimming lesson tomorrow. Otherwise it would be cool to meet you. The John Muir exhibit is fun. Here is a video of DD jumping over the crevasse there.
I think homework for children in the elementary school years is ridiculous. I can see maybe activities/little projects that their parents can help them with... Other than that I think they are too young and should be able to enjoy themselves and not be strapped to a desk doing school work and than strapped to one at home doing homework :ohno:
So what's the solution for teachers giving homework too early? Once the kids are in first or second grade and the teacher starts giving homework, then what? I guess beyond talking to the teacher and principal about it there's not much to do. Except if it is really excessive to either send a note each day stating that it was excessive and risk getting bad grades and bad report cards or be blatantly obvious about doing it yourself for the child and risk the same thing? Either way if the teacher is homework crazy, the kid will pay the price.
Oh, and I have had a couple of mammograms now (cuz I'm old:laugh:) and while deeply uncomfortable and undignified, they are not painful.
Unfortunately you are right. :ohno:Quote:
Originally Posted by girlwonder
Personally though, if faced with that situation, I would change teachers :P
ETA: Can't comment on the mammogram convo, haven't made it there yet-thank goodness! Not looking forward to those.
I could look for some more gentle stuff or just get more toys or bath crayons.
I have been using baby shampoo in the bath..it makes bubbles and it's a gentle type so I thought it would be okay. We'll see how he does without it. I wish he would go back to showers, but he likes baths again!
It's not an open wound, they think it might be an irritation just inside the tip and they told me to put antibacterial stuff around there, and give him cranberry juice (which I'm not sure why, if they don't think it's an infection)
Josh doesn't have homework, but he does things in school that carry over to home, like right now they are doing senses and marking down things they don't like the smell or taste of, so he is totally into that at home now.
I've resigned myself to the fact that that's how it is. Some teachers are better than others...changing isn't always an option either.Quote:
Originally Posted by girlwonder
When I was in college ('05-'07) my kids had a lot more homework than I did.
In the last couple of months, I've used up maybe half of the one pound chunk I bought. The only thing I don't like is that there are occasional large pieces of "stuff" in it, and once when I wasn't careful, I scratched myself with it. If you want to try it before you buy it, let me know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smplyme89
I wondered if you had back problems from the artwork you do... it looks like it could be painful to be bent over like that after while. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by girlwonder
You're awesome. I'm incorporating this into my parenting repertoire right away.Quote:
Originally Posted by demigraf
That's the kind of homework I can live with as well, although I'll go further and say that's the kind of homework a older kid could benefit from too. But homework that's basically a printed sheet of math problems, or instructions to write a paragraph (anything I call "desk homework") doesn't foster real learning, IMO. Homework should take advantage of the fact that the student is outside of the classroom, not try to recreate a desk/classroom environment at home.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3andMe
I'm also always surprised when I hear people think that rote repetition is any real way to learn. Somewhere in the haze of large classrooms and standardized tests, we got "memorization" confused with "learning".
But I know I have some unique notions about education. :winks:
It's difficult. If the child is doing well on tests and in classroom projects/participation, homework won't keep them behind. But children like to feel prepared and please authority figures as well, so constantly coming to class unprepared isn't really an option either.Quote:
Originally Posted by girlwonder
So what every kids needs is a super proactive mom like Erin.:)
Kate, we do baths but we don't use bubbles for the most part. I told them if they wanted to have baths as often as they wanted, they would have to do them without the bubbles. That made them okay with it.
On the subject of schoolwork and homework, I'm pretty sure I'm on a completely different plane (probably planet) than the rest of y'all. In all honesty, if my high school experience is any indication, kids in this country get away scott free. I haven't looked at them, but these studies that show that more homework/schoolwork is harmful for kids, do they include the countries where all our high paying jobs are going (or where we're importing people from to give them our high paying jobs)?
I can tell you how things are done in India. You start school at 3. This isn't play school, this is school school. You get to learn your numbers, your letters, colors, shapes, all that stuff. And you start working on your penmanship. And you have homework. When you start first grade, you have subjects - English, local language, social studies (which encompasses history, geography, civics), science and math. When you start 6th grade, you start splitting these up, so the subjects are - English, local language, national language, physics, chemistry, biology, history & civics, geography and math. This pretty much continues until you graduate from high school, at which point you specialize in whatever you want to specialize in. THIS is what kids coming out of our school systems are competing against.
I came to this country when I was 16. I joined the 11th grade the first week of May. I had a month, month and a half to come up to speed on all the subjects (which BTW, I was gobsmacked when told that I could skip an entire science, like Biology, if I took enough of the rest). My grade average that year and the year after was upwards of 99 (out of 100), taking AP math, physics and chemistry. I did it basically without opening my books (besides reading what I had to read for my English classes) and had never had such an easy time in school, ever. Because I goofed off so much, I lost a lot of my study skills, and it was hard to get them back when I got into college.
I think that we need to keep in mind that it is no longer kids within the US that are competing for jobs. Our kids and their kids are increasingly going to go up against kids with similarly structured, highly rigorous academic backgrounds, and they're going to come up short. One of the best high schools in the country is practically in my backyard, and while they won't admit to it, they changed their admissions criteria to use other metrics than academics because the school was filling up with kids from East and South Eastern Asia. Our small software development company has a staff of a few hundred, and practically ALL new hires are non-natives of the US. It isn't from lack of effort either; the kids just don't have the right qualifications or the right work ethic.
Anyway, I'll end my rant now. I have critiques of the way things are done back home as well, but at least it looks like that system generates kids that are employable.
I would love too! Thats very sweet of you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Suja
The book I am reading for my Global Perspectives class "The World is Flat" speaks alot about India (not so much the grade school side) but the employment side. How many of our jobs are being outsourced there because the new graduates in India are just as qualified if not more so than the graduates here in the US. I haven't made it very far into the book as of yet, but I'm enjoying it so far! And how did I not know you were from India?? :crazy:
Well we are definitely on different ends of the spectrum. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Suja
I would cry if Abbey grew up to be a code monkey working in a cube who needed an artificial light lamp to get her recommended dosage of Vitamin D. Unless that was her passion, I guess. She might be more employable, but I don't know if she'd be happy, and I really just want her to be happy.
I believe both that schools don't teach enough, and also that there's too much paperwork in grade school. Paperwork kills the spirit of invention and artisanship (among other things).
We do agree on one thing though, students here end up feeling entitled to grades they don't deserve and in general, their work ethic plain sucks. But that's a symptom of schooling that focuses on memorization and written work as well. It's too easy to just memorize and repeat, then use wikipedia to "research". There's little praise for unique work because anything uncommon in response to an assignment increases a teacher's workload (already taxed due to overcrowding).
I'll stop now too. :feellove: for hearing other people's perspectives though. I like it when smart people make me think.
Now I need a ITA w/ Molly sign, too! ;) Well said, Molly. I think along the same lines as you. I would rather Travis not have started school here at 3, but it's play-based for the most part, so I'm not too bummed about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbeysMom
I agree with you about high school - it was really quite easy (except for my complete math imbecility). I just don't see the point of homework for a six year old. I think a huge part of the problem also is that they are not teaching the kids so much as they are trying to get the kids to get a good score on a standardized test. Anywhooooooo, I guess we will all be crossing that bridge soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suja
Standardized testing is crap... Thats all I have to say on that subject
As long as I get up and stretch every half hour or so, it's not bad. Plus I try to do some form of exercise almost every day to counteract (though the latest on sitting being bad for you says that it doesn't matter!). Also I try to do core exercises and pushups every day. My back problem is from my spondylolisthesis, which means that one of my vertebrae is slipping forward over the one below it, impinging upon my nerve which causes pain from my lower back through my hip, down the front of my thigh, and at my knee down through the front of my shin to my foot it turns into numbness and tingling.Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbeysMom
Here's a lovely illustration:
http://www.associatedpain.com/images...isthesis-1.jpg
Although my type is isthmic rather than degenerative if that matters to you :laugh:
That sounds really painful! I've only experienced nerve pain in a tooth and thought I might die. Can they fuse the disc? Or is surgery not helpful? :hugs: for dealing with that.
I can see your point about employability, Suja, but I was under the impression that the main problem was our kids competing with people who could do the same job, but for pennies on the dollar? I am in software development, so I have worked regularly with outsourced teams for the past decade. Perhaps rigorous study from an early age gives people the skills and discipline to succeed in fields l require a lot of memorization and methodology (admittedly, the high paying ones), but from personal experience, it doesn't make for creative problem solvers or for self-starters, and it really doesn't ensure that folks with degrees in the field possess a real understanding of the subject enough to allow them to make useful and practical application of it. Speaking from my experience, give me an outsourced team and the occurrence of a truly gifted, synthetic thinker - a thought leader - among them is perhaps only as frequent as it would be on a totally homegrown, home-educated team. Again, personal experience here, which doesn't really count as hard evidence. Now I'm interested in looking a few stats up.
I am very hesitant to take any sort of "tiger mother" approach towards my kids' learning and skill development. Especially if it interferes with their happiness. And that includes sending them to schools that adopt that approach too. To be honest, I'm convinced there's no way B is growing up to be a dullard, no matter what school Imsend him to. We'll give him the tools to make do with whatever comes his way.
But Ash, my year abroad at a uni in the UK was hilarious. It was so easy. They excused us from having to take finals that year because it was the first year they'd introduced that form of assessment and felt it'd only be fair to exempt us from them since we'd been "caught off guard" by their new system. LOL.
My story for the day finds me in a thrift store on my lunch break. I have started joggng again now that I'm down past a certain weight, and I was on the hunt for secondhand workout wear that wicks moisture away from the body. Long story short, I found all sorts of good "technical fabric" apparel from Columbia, Nike, REI, North Face etc - each item under $4 where - brand new, it'd easily be over $40 apiece. While I was there, I heard this kid crying ... no... howling off in the distance. Far away. Couldn't tell where she was. And right behind me, this woman was half-assedly calling out "I'm here baby. Mommy's here" while she didn't take her eyes off the racks. It was so sad. I couldn't help it; I asked her if that was her child that was crying, and she goes yeah, and makes the slightest show of peeking into a blocked-off area to look for her. The area she peeked into? A construction area with a big sign on it that said respirators are needed to enter because it contained asbestos, like her kid might have slipped into there - no biggie. I'd had it and found the distraught 5 yr old girl and brought her to her mother, who then yelled at her to stay put. I can't tell you how stuff like that puts me in the worst mood for the rest of the day. I love Thrift Town, but I see the worst parenting in there. :ohno:
Running off now to start my weekend.
Our entire education system needs to be revamped, not just the homework. And I agree Myles, I'd never be a 'tiger mother' Cornell has had an influx of Asian students leaping from the bridges up here because the kids aren't getting A's and they're convinced they cannot have a life without them. It's horrible. $, prestige, knowledge...none of that is worth giving up life or even happiness.
Jesi is one that can pass tests without really studying or putting in effort. She failed two classes last year just due to not doing the homework alone. All her test grades were 85 or higher, but homework counts as 1/4 of the final grade. She's learned a hard lesson, but really...what lesson did she learn? She knows the work.
I agree, the education system is all kinds of out of wack. In grade school they spend WAY too much time focusing on passing the FCAT that you do not have time to absorb information that would actually be inherently useful later on :ohno:
Myles I hate when I see things like that, it really makes me sad. I wish people could understand what a true blessing children are...
That's so sad. Poor kid.Quote:
Originally Posted by demigraf
Last weekend I was standing in line behind a couple that had two young children, probably 2 and 4. They were both in the basket and as young children do when they get bored, they kinda started shoving on each other. Not really rough, but I could tell it would get out of control if Mom or Dad didn't intervene. Mom intervened all right, she lurched at her 2 year old son and raised her fist at him. The poor boy flinched back and covered his little head with his hands. It instantly brought tears to my eyes. She hauled the kids off roughly and Dad didn't even seem to blink an eye over any of it. It was sickening.