Secular Confessions

I don't know if you all remember when Savana suddenly out of nowhere wouldn't do her dance class any longer. So we gave it up. A few weeks ago I got a postcard in the mail from them saying they were having registration and on that day you could try a class. She saw the postcard with a ballerina on it and wanted to know what it was so I told her and she said she wanted to do dance again. When we went to sign up it was at the wrong time for her to try but her old teacher was there so she said she had a free hour and she'd do a class with her. So nice. Savana loved it. The teacher explained to her that there would be a different teacher. Savana was adamant she wanted me to sign her up again so I did. Well, today she has her dance outfit on an hour before it's time to go. She's excited. Has not expressed any anxiety at all. We go and just as she walking into the room she turns around and starts to cry and tells me she can't do it. I had Kai and Sawyer with me. Kai was begging me to go to puzzles in the lounge and Kai was fussing and Savana was...losing it. She got that look on her face where I know that she won't go back. I gave her one of her stress mints and she seemed ok until I tried to coax her in the room. The owner and her old teacher were also trying different tactics. Finally one of the younger highschool volunteers took Kai to do puzzles and the owner asked me if she could take Sawyer for me. I sat on the floor with Savana and she just kept saying over and over, "I can't bring myself to walk in. I'm sorry. I can't help it. I can't help it." I was bawling. She was bawling. It was just awful. I gathered my boys and we left. Her old teacher and the owner caught me at the door and said to please keep bringing her back, not to give up. They have lots of ideas to get her in there. All the way home she cried about how she wanted to do dance so badly but couldn't bring herself to go be with her class. I cried all the way home too. I wish everything didn't have to be so difficult for her. I watch all those other little girls just skip on in there and have to wonder why Savana seems to carry the world on her shoulders. :ohno:


We came home and I started making dinner and accidently poured a shatload of ground cloves into an indian dish i was preparing. ARGH. I got out what I could but it tasted like crap. The kids each ate a bowl of shredded coconut and a cold pancake with pb for dinner while dbf and I choked down the food because it was full of our fresh csa veggies we couldn't waste. Sawyer took tiny cat naps all day making it impossible for me to do much with the other children.

I will stop now.:truce: Here's to tomorrow.

:hugs: Bridget it does sound like you had quite a day. I agree with her teachers to keep trying if she still wants to go. It's awful even for me to imagine her having so much anxiety. :(

That is a rough day Bridget! And poor Savana!!

I hope tomorrow is easy peasy for you and I hope you got a good drink.

Erin

Sorry double post.

I'm so sorry Bridget. I feel so sad for both of you having to deal with that. Is it anxiety or what? (can kids that young have anxiety?)
She's lucky to have an understanding mom like you to help her through it.
We found a cute t shirt making thing at Target where you iron on the pieces of a monster, and I felt so bad because Josh wanted to just copy the picture that was on the package but I was trying to get him to use his own ideas. It came with lots of different eyes and outfits and stuff. He got really upset about that and I kind of ruined it for him I think but he did end up picking out his own ideas.

I don't know what's wrong with me, why I always have to push issues that aren't a big deal. It confuses me because I'm not really a control freak in other areas of my life. I'm pretty easygoing except when it comes to Josh. Why is that?

Bridget, that makes me so sad for you and Savana. I agree, I would keep trying.

Kate, sometimes it's hard for little kids to learn not to copy the model. A few of the kids I have worked with really had trouble with that. I would give him a lot of practice with that type of thing. The iron ons sound really cute.

Bridget, that sounds like an awful day, and I am really sad for Savana too. I don't know if trying again at this point would just reinforce the anxiety. It sounds like she's got these conflicting impulses, of wanting to dance and then being really scared of whatever it is when she gets there--the room, the other girls looking at here, not doing it right, being exposed, whatever? I think going back more (at least with my kids, in my experience) would solidify that those are the emotions associated with that event, and it would make it harder.

What I would do is to try to do something different, but similar. Could you get the teacher to come do a special guest class out at your daycare? My preschool has guests come occasionally for special sessions, and it's always a hit. It would probably cost a lot more, but maybe some of the parents could pitch in for a special dance class one day. That could remove the class from the setting of her anxiety, and then once she has a class in a setting that she finds comfortable, it would be easier to transition to the regular studio.

Or, if you could get to the bottom of what her fear is, maybe you and the teacher could come up with a strategy. Maybe she could just watch one class, and you and she could practice at home before going. Or maybe the teacher could take her up front and have her be the special helper with the class (Claire is very shy and hangs back, but loves special attention and loves to instruct so this type of thing would be helpful for her). Maybe she isn't comfortable with the clothes she is wearing or feels like she should be wearing. Is everyone in pink tutus? Or, at the very least, you could check out some books, music, and videos and practice at home for a while.

It sounds like a perfectly awful day. I won't lie, I had some days that I totally despaired and it seemed like everything was going wrong, one thing after another. They happened most often, it seemed like, when Soren was between 2-8 months old. They don't happen as often anymore.

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I'm getting really discouraged with Ro, though, lately, speaking of. It seems like since I posted about our problems with our friend who was encouraging his son to be all rough-and-tumble, Ro has become increasingly rough. Not particularly viciously violent, but careless and sloppy and rough. He threw a rock at our neighbor's kid. Not on purpose, but because he was excited and wanted to share his rocks. I talked to him a lot about throwing rocks and how it wasn't okay, but two days later he threw a rock again. He has been pummeling Claire and pushing the baby over and lying down on him. No matter how often I tell him to be gentle, no matter how often I put him in time out, and I tell him we love each other but nobody will want to play with him if he hurts them, he goes right back to it as if he hasn't heard it. He says he loves the baby, but he knocks him over when he gives him a hug.

My mom thinks he finally realized he could do it. A lot of it is done in play, and like I said it doesn't seem malicious. I wonder if it's because his friend plays rough and his friend's father, whom he likes a lot, encourages rough play so much and doesn't slow them down when it gets too aggressive. He has also been imitating some of the friend's mannerisms, including his laugh, name-calling, words he says, and burping.

I put him out on the couch to go to sleep last night, because he bit Claire and then hit her in the eye with a book. I gave her an ice pack, but then I had to put baby S. to bed and I couldn't stay in there. When I came back he was asleep, cuddled up with a book.

I'm really discouraged about this, because he's always been so sweet and kind and gentle. I've been consistent, but it doesn't seem to be working. Should we just keep at it and hope it sinks in someday?

He's also had a recent upswing in nervous/repetitive behaviors, like making little noises, or liplicking. I know something is going on with him, I just don't know how to fix it.

Oh, and Chrissy, you need a three-way emoticon with Chrome!

Oh, Bridget, that sounds like a heartbreaking experience. I wish I had more advice for you, but all I got to tell ya is "bravo!" for keeping your compassion during the episode. So many moms would act peevish and just complain to their friends that her child had a "meltdown".

Lydia, :hugs: I know that helpless feeling when you don't know what you can do to help out your child and you sense there's something wrong but can't put your finger on it. I just hope it's a hormonal phase that will pass for Ro. I have to confess that my alarm doesn't go off perhaps as often as it should when Bodhi shows signs of aggression, perhaps because he's always been a demanding child. He was literally pissed off when he came out of the womb. That's not to say he isn't sweet, but he's also intense. He has hit his cousin with a toy, a couple playmates during playdates, and once some twins at a museum who were younger than him when he wanted their trains. Not that we know what we're doing, but we do try to get to the bottom of what it is he wants, remove him/take the object of his desire away to show him that aggression doesn't get him what he's after, and later try to model the "right way" to ask for it if there is one.

I realize after I just typed that out that I probably just described what a lot of the parenting books tell you for handling normal, fleeting toddler act-up behavior, and you're concerned about the underlying cause of something more persistent in Ro. So I hope you do get to the bottom of that. Please feel free to just ignore all I wrote above. I am too lazy to delete.

Yawn. My new local mom's group does in-a-pinch meals for moms in need, and I cooked for two families tonight. I should get some rest.

G'night, ladies!

Lydia, Travis did the same thing as what you are saying Ro is doing. He's got 2 cousins (who are brothers) who fight with each other a lot and one day, he just joined in instead of crying when they were trying to fight with him. He got all giddy and would just throw his whole body at them or fling his arms at them and even throwing toys at them. It's finally calmed down, but I never found a solution other than just watching him like a hawk a lot of the time and doing lots of time outs. (It was a hard phase).

Bridget, I think the teachers had good intentions telling you to keep bringing Savana back but I'd be hesitant to do so. I struggled all throughout my childhood with anxiety and stress and I can imagine in that scenario, I would not have wanted to keep going back to get stressed out over it.

Aw, you guys, I had a heart-warming moment with Travis this morning. I got him dressed and sent him around next door to his grandparents (his grandad takes him to daycare) and as he was walking out the door, I shouted, "Bye, I love you!" and he only shouted "BYE!" and took off running to next door. I stood there at the door to make sure he got around there and within 5 seconds he was back peeping around the corner and he shouted "I LOVE YOU, TOO!" And he blew me a kiss...lol

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Originally Posted by AmeriBrit

Bridget, I think the teachers had good intentions telling you to keep bringing Savana back but I'd be hesitant to do so. I struggled all throughout my childhood with anxiety and stress and I can imagine in that scenario, I would not have wanted to keep going back to get stressed out over it.

Aw, you guys, I had a heart-warming moment with Travis this morning. I got him dressed and sent him around next door to his grandparents (his grandad takes him to daycare) and as he was walking out the door, I shouted, "Bye, I love you!" and he only shouted "BYE!" and took off running to next door. I stood there at the door to make sure he got around there and within 5 seconds he was back peeping around the corner and he shouted "I LOVE YOU, TOO!" And he blew me a kiss...lol

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First of all, :wub::wub::wub: Travis!

Secondly, what if she wants to go back? She keeps telling me she really wants to do it and I am afraid it will seem punitive if I don't take her. Kind of like, "Well, you choked, lost your chance"
Dbf and I are considering having him take her next time to see if that changes anything.

Lydia, I do think you need to just keep at it with Ro. It sounds like he's just testing the boundaries and perhaps there is a bit of confusion because of the way his rough friend plays. I have problems with Kai being very "hands on" with his friends. He is not rough but will hang on them, pulling and pushing. It's like he needs that physical contact but it's unpleasant for the person receiving it.

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Originally Posted by daylilies

I don't know what's wrong with me, why I always have to push issues that aren't a big deal. It confuses me because I'm not really a control freak in other areas of my life. I'm pretty easygoing except when it comes to Josh. Why is that?

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There's nothing wrong with you. I'm like that with my kids-they're our kids! We care a lot about what they do and even how they do it sometimes. The really hard part is just letting go and let them do things their own way. Even now, with Bobbie being 18, I have tremendous anxiety about choices she makes and will make, but I have to keep my mouth shut and just be supportive of her. Discuss options with her, but let her decide. Believe me, it's not easy. Not really the same thing, but it's the same principal.

Bridget, I recently read an article about anxiety with young children and they said that sometimes it can happen when they have too many choices. Not as in having to choose 1 out of 10 things, but throughout the day if they have to choose what they're going to wear, what they're going to eat for breakfast, what activity they'll do first and on and on throughout the day, that in itself can cause anxiety. The ultimate suggestion was to limit how many times a day your child had to make a choice.

I wish I could find the first article I read just last week because it seemed geared toward gentle parenting. I just google searched for it and found a whole host of articles on the topic though so I'd wager that it's possible (?) that could be a contributing factor?? I'm just thinking out loud. I only want to help, not tell you what to do. I actually thought of Savannah when I read the article because I remembered you talking about her having such a hard time choosing her berets one day in the store. It might be worth perusing anyway and see if any of the information offers real advice that can help.

Lydia, I think that phases can last for years :laugh: In hindsight it certainly felt that way at the time. I really believe in consistency and I think that you're doing all the right things.

Raising kids is so darn hard. My teens didn't do anything with the house again yesterday and worse than that it was Bobbie's regular turn to do the dishes last night. Even though she got all bent when she was reminded to do them before we went to bed, they weren't done this morning. I really don't want to go-round with those girls every.single.day about this.

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Originally Posted by missychrissy

Bridget, I recently read an article about anxiety with young children and they said that sometimes it can happen when they have too many choices. Not as in having to choose 1 out of 10 things, but throughout the day if they have to choose what they're going to wear, what they're going to eat for breakfast, what activity they'll do first and on and on throughout the day, that in itself can cause anxiety. The ultimate suggestion was to limit how many times a day your child had to make a choice.

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I have read something similar, years ago when Ky was a little younger than Savanna. He was not really anxiety prone but was (and still is) very easily frustrated to the point where he will get upset and act out aggressively. I took away a lot of the choices he got to make and he got much better in that regard, but I think his was a different situation as he has always wanted to try new things or go to activities, but when he cannot do a specific skill, he will act out. He is much better now. I was on a Buddhism kick back then and we would meditate together and recite loving kindness meditations every night before bed and if possible, during the moment of his frustration at whoever or whatever. It really calmed him down.

I would let her go back if she asked and I think it is a good idea to let her dad take her.

Ky used to be pretty aggressive with his friends and cousins. He actually still is, kind of, I don't think he is overly aggressive, but he does like to wrestle and he likes to hang onto his older cousins and let them drag him around. I grew up with 4 brothers and they were all much more aggressive than Ky so I just see it as regular boy behavior. I do remind him to be careful and not hurt anyone but most of the time they are just playing around so no one gets hurt. I also make them go outside since Ky and his cousins are pretty huge now IMO and make too much of a ruckus so I let them go out and wrestle in the front yard LOL. They are much more laid back after their matches. They are not allowed to throw things though and they are not allowed to wrestle with babies or other smaller children. Those are the main rules I enforce with the boy-ness of the boys in our lives when they are around.

Erin

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Originally Posted by Ky'sMom

I would let her go back if she asked and I think it is a good idea to let her dad take her.

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I agree with this. I think that it is really important that kids do spend some time away from their parents and gain a little independence. My sister was a very shy kid and was either at home with mom/dad....or was with me. She didn't leave home for college and while she did leave for grad school, it was a very hard thing for her. She is 28 and still lives at home but is finally starting to get out there and do things without always having dad with (he's her main concert buddy) or DH and I with her. I can't help but think that it would have been better for her if she had learned to not be quite as attached to us when she was younger.
It is for this reason that I do plan on using daycare for our child once toddler age at least part-time. DH and I work different shifts so we can get away without using daycare but I don't want the child to only know how to be with us once past the baby phase. Dh doesn't totally agree with me there but mostly because he doesn't want to spend the money. But I will win out on this one.


And :hugs: about the messed up meal. I did the same thing Sunday when making strawberry shortcake. I forgot to add milk in the shortcake and it was awful and horribly dry and nasty. Dh had to run to the store and buy some because I didn't have the time to make another one and already had the berries all chopped and ready to go. I just hate messing up a meal. It's so disappointing.

Bridget, are the parents allowed to stay in the classroom while they dance? Could you take her in and stay close to her and then the next time, stay in the room til you slowly can leave her there to dance on her own? Maybe she needs some familiarity to calm her down?

Erin, that's a good point you've made about Ky wrestling with his cousins and boys being like that. I think I forget sometimes that a lot of their behavior is just nature.

AWw Travis! :wub:

Thanks Chrissy :) What you said made sense. I drive myself nuts when I want to control what he does and how he does it so much. And DH doesn't help because he's the same way, even worse. I think we both need to back off a little bit.

Josh had his first swimming lesson today and he did great. He was scared but he did most of what the teacher asked and he was smiling and laughing throughout most of the lesson. I'm glad I picked the one I could go in with him. I don't think he would have gotten in the water without me.

I like that theory about too much choice. I never heard it put that way in regards to kids, but we practice firm, fair leadership with our dogs. We learned from a trainer at some point that dogs- particularly non-alphas of the pack - act up if they don't feel like they're being led. They think "Why aren't you leading me? I guess I'll have to do it myself, even though I don't really want to." and that's what appears to us humans as disobedience. I guess the idea is that if dogs know what you want and can reliably predict the "right thing" to do as defined consistently by their humans, they are calm and happy. It seems to work well on our pups anyway (with some issues we haven't ironed out yet.)

Bridget, is there any way you could go back with Savana just to watch? If it's a no-pressure type of situation in her mind, she might decide halfway thru that she wants to join in.

Erin, the first rule of Mom's Fight Club is... you don't talk about Mom's Fight Club. :lol:
Heh - that's what your wrestling post reminded me of. :P

AmeriAsh, what a sweetheart Travvy is!! :wub:

kate, that's great that Josh did well in swim lessons on his first day. I guess it could have gone poorly for any kid.

I think what Myles said about dogs makes a lot of sense for children too.

I'm so glad Josh had a great time :wub: I wish I could take Conner to something like that. I don't know if it's Bobbie's recent graduation or what, but this week I've really felt a pang in my heart about not 'being there' during the day for the kids. I was with Bobbie and Jessie when they were little but not at all for Sydney and Conner. I've been a full-time working mom since shortly after Sydney was born. :( I never regretted it...till this weekend.

Bridget I am sorry you had such a rough day :( I feel so bad for you and Savana, I wish I had some advice :hugs:

Ash that is such a sweet story, Travis sounds like a doll :wub:

Kate I am sure in no time Josh will be ready to jump in the water without you :)

Jennifer ITA I think kids need that outside interaction. I know a couple home schooled kids who didn't have much interaction with other kids outside of brothers and sisters who had a really hard time come college in a social enviroment :ohno:

ETA: Chrissy many :hugs: mama! You've done what you had to do :hugs:

Ash-that was cute about Travis! I wanted to respond but got sidetracked. :wub:

I got stuck with an issue and was fuming that I'd have to suck it up and ask my boss for help. I was very satisfied when I was able to tell him I'd already tried all his suggestions and it turned out to be an issue that isn't our problem. He put the call in to CIT for them to come fix it. :vibes: It's the little things that make me happy.

As for us- NO SURGERY :party: They did the Barium Swallow, but wouldn't tell us if it showed anything :pokey: They called as we were heading home that they want us to come back on Friday and do it AGAIN so they can get additional pictures :headbang: I really don't know what to think :indifferent: I really hate the idea of having to put him throug that again. He wouldn't hardly take the Barium in the bottle at.all!!! He was SO upset and kept looking at me all sad and whining after they strapped him down :cry:

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Originally Posted by Smplyme89

As for us- NO SURGERY :party: They did the Barium Swallow, but wouldn't tell us if it showed anything :pokey: They called as we were heading home that they want us to come back on Friday and do it AGAIN so they can get additional pictures :headbang: I really don't know what to think :indifferent: I really hate the idea of having to put him throug that again. He wouldn't hardly take the Barium in the bottle at.all!!! He was SO upset and kept looking at me all sad and whining after they strapped him down :cry:

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Poor baby :(

Chrissy, I think no matter what you chose to do you'd be looking back and thinking about regrets at this time. I think you did a great job (and you get to do it 3 more times! :laugh:)

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Originally Posted by Smplyme89

They called as we were heading home that they want us to come back on Friday and do it AGAIN so they can get additional pictures :headbang: I really don't know what to think :indifferent: I really hate the idea of having to put him throug that again. He wouldn't hardly take the Barium in the bottle at.all!!! He was SO upset and kept looking at me all sad and whining after they strapped him down :cry:

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Poor little dude. I really hope the return visit sheds more light on the problem so the stress and discomfort are worth it. It's so hard when they're looking to you for help and don't understand that you are trying to help them.

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chrissy - :cabbage: right on. hee hee hee.

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Originally Posted by daylilies

Chrissy, I think no matter what you chose to do you'd be looking back and thinking about regrets at this time. I think you did a great job (and you get to do it 3 more times! :laugh:)

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I'm sorry for being lost, but what do you get to do 3 more times, chrissy? Are you TTC again? :winks:

Aw Christina that's awful :cry: I'm so sad for you and him.

Thanks Kate. I tell myself the girls are all ok-and they are-but I guess I just miss them. I'm sure I'll get over it. It was just hard to come back after such a family-centered weekend and mentally adjust to being an individual again.

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Originally Posted by demigraf

I'm sorry for being lost, but what do you get to do 3 more times, chrissy? Are you TTC again? :winks:

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God no!! She meant I have 3 more kids to get through high school graduation.

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Originally Posted by daylilies

I think what Myles said about dogs makes a lot of sense for children too.

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I haven't tried it on a kid yet...but I know it works on dogs. It's what we did with Cosmo. She's not the alpha, we are and we try to make it know what we expect from her and really praise the good behavior. Every once in a while she tests it but we set her straight and she seems happy to know that.

Christina yeah for no surgery! and at least the barium swallow test isn't too bad (I had that done post op to make sure nothing was leaking before I was allowed to eat or drink anything). Not fun for a little guy who doesn't get it....but it absolutely didn't hurt or anything.