Secular Confessions

I thought before reading you might fall in that area, but for some reason there were a couple of things in the other category that made me think of you. Haven't read the NT section yet.

Mine keeps changing. First time I took it I was an INFP. Later I took it again and I was INTJ. I just took it again and got INTP, but if I had changed two answers I would have been INFP. I'm going to read all three sections with a very critical eye.

Rationally, though (haha) I'm not surprised you are a Rational. You're certainly the most rational of us all. Supposedly it is the rarest type of all the types.

L, did APA eat your post? I don't see it. Or it's getting late and I need to go to bed.

I was wondering about that, too. I can't see it, either.

Haha, I totally just went back to see it because I was thinking to myself I didn't remember reading a reply from you! Nothing gets by us!

Lol!

As long as it isn't all in my head.

Is it the Twilight Zone?

I did a MB test in college and was an "I" something I think. I wonder how you'd peg me, Mandy? :D

I was just talking to my cousin who's the physicist in learning musician and he told me I should start a blog. He's got one going about his theories in physics; I've always thought it would be fun to do one on the expat side of living abroad here in the UK; I'm sure there are dozens already out there as there's something like 250k Americans living in Britain, but no one else is me with my experiences, so I might just do it. I've also had a children's book idea in my head to write about the vocabulary differences between the two countries..

GRR! I can't believe it's not there. It took me forever to write it, that one reply and the one I put in here, and dh was waiting for me to come join him on the couch. I kept saying "I'll be there in just a few minutes" but our computer and our connection were acting up and everything took forever. He was doing other stuff, but I felt badly afterwards how long it took me. And then I saw that my reply wasn't even there! I was momentarily worried that it ended up randomly in some other thread, but no, it just vanished.

Anyway, I agreed that it was cultural, but that I would definitely notice if a child said piss instead of pee or bathroom/restroom in this country, just because it is considered a somewhat vulgar term. I would also notice urinate, because it would be unnecessarily proper. DH scolded me for trying to teach our 2-year-olds to say "pass gas" instead of fart, and said he did not want them to be the only two kids on the playground using exceptionally proper ("and prissy") phrasing. So I taught them about how to use polite language around grown-ups and older people and how they could use more common language among their peers.

I also changed some of my terminology specifically because of our school's policy on the word "butt." They don't use it there. They find it offensive. I had no idea so many people find it offensive, but I guess it's true. They use phrases like "Sit down on your bottom." Now I realize why my aunt said "derriere" and "rear end" instead of "butt" so frequently, which I thought was very weird. Now that I know so many people find the word offensive, I have started saying bottom more, but I have also talked to my kids about how some anatomical words and some verbs can be potty words depending on the context, and it's okay to say butt or pee if that's really what you need to describe, but it's not okay to use it as an adjective or pejorative or go around calling someone a poo poo head.

I said more, but I have to clock in and go to work now.

I'm sorry, it's far too much work for me to worry about offending other people, especially when we're getting into silly words like butt. Ass, I can see being offensive. But butt? Um, no. My attitude would be grow the hell up. :P

To add to that, I remember distinctly getting in trouble in 1st or 2nd grade for swearing. I'd said, "Oh my god" and a little (too, imo) Christian girl tattled on me for swearing. The teacher knew what I'd said, and I still got in trouble for it-as swearing! Absolutely inappropriate and if that happened to my kids, there'd be an uncomfortable discussion between me, the teacher, and their principal.

I have never heard of "butt" being an inappropriate word. I would look all crazy upside their heads if someone told me that. I would also not even try to not teach my kids to say butt. Elle is really into saying "butt" and "booty." She thinks it is hilarious and will stick out her butt, we crack up laughing all the time. I am trying not to laugh just thinking about it,

We don't say fart often and instead mostly we say "poot." Or that someone has "cut one." DH doesn't like his referred to as a poot, his is a fart because he's a man and men don't "poot." LOL!

And Bridget, I remember you saying that your DBF didn't do his laundry last time, but I would so stop doing his laundry. I swear when I stopped doing my DH's it took, literally, a load off me (actually about 4 loads because DH has more clothes than Elle and I put together). I also stopped doing Ky's even though I didn't want to stop doing either of theirs as it is better for the environment to do all of it together, but it is better for my personal environment not to do laundry for 3 days. I can even push it and do laundry only twice a month now if I wanted to (but I usually do it weekly). It is very refreshing and since DH also likes to complain but doesn't do any chores, he now can do his own laundry at least and clean his own bathroom (which he doesn't do). It is always amazing to me the "ideas" my DH has about cleaning and how he thinks I'm lacking in that department when he doesn't do anything. I usually bring that up when he complains about me not doing certain chores as often anymore, that he doesn't do anything so has no room to complain. You spoke about the floors in Random and that is an area where DH will complain, that the kitchen floor is dirty, and I'm like, yeah it is, you know where the mop is. He will go all into his chauvinistic thing in thinking since I'm a woman with a vagina that that should be my responsibility :eyeroll: even though I work more hours than him outside the house and I'm the only person who cleans on a regular basis. He knows I don't take him seriously anymore in regards to stuff like that and it usually doesn't bother me at all, unless he calls me "lazy" then we will get into an argument after the kids go to bed and I force him to apologize.

Erin

I read the thread and did a bunch of multi-quotes, then I had to leave my computer to go pump. I hope I remember all the things I wanted to say.

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Originally Posted by demigraf

Dana, wow. Well that's definitely a way to make a statement to your church that you've parted ways. One of the participants hit a point when she was quoted as saying that she wouldn't have had the courage to leave the church in any way other than the group. It's sad she felt that much pressure. "Among the reasons cited by those resigning are the church's political activism against gay marriage and doctrinal teachings that conflict with scientific findings or are perceived as racist or sexist...Others cite inconsistencies in the Mormons' explanation of its own history, including the practice of polygamy." I've never seen their doctrines firsthand, and have only read about their activism against gay marriage in the papers, but those sound like meaningful reasons to me if true.

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I know very little about the mormon faith, so I can't comment on their reasons for leaving. I really was far more interested in the flamboyant farewells. Most people who leave their religion tend to slink away quietly, and it seems like most faiths don't really have a process for exiting. I know my name is still on the rolls of the Southern Baptist Church. I guess I could write the last church that held my membership and ask to be purged, but to what end? The only person that would ever really know would be the church secretary who read my request. IDK...my thoughts aren't coalescing. Just thinking about leaving religion and closure and all that.

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Originally Posted by missychrissy

I'm shaking it off. This is his first IT job and there's some things he doesn't know, or doesn't think to think about (remoting in to do Win Updates, for example). I should think of that, rather than assume he's just 'hiding' from the crisis in our office. Except...he really does disappear for 2-4 hours every day for unclear reasons. It's really getting hard for me to make allowances.

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A few years ago, my company merged with another company and they sent everyone through this exercise called [ugh!] "Culture Shaping". Some of it was awful, but there were a couple of useful ideas that have stuck with me, one of which was the tenet "Presume Innocence". Basically, if someone is screwing up, you make every effort to attribute their difficulties to innocent motives (e.g. lack of training/knowledge) rather than malicious ones (e.g. laziness). Applying that concept really has helped me reduce my aggro level at work and in my life in general. However, I would have trouble presuming innocence if a co-worker were disappearing for 2-4 hours every day. Maybe he has IBS or some other awful condition that is none of my business, and I would try to keep that it mind and MMOB, but I would definitely still feel aggro about it.

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Originally Posted by Bridget

So most of you saw my cleaning post. Savana knows I'm trying really hard to stay organized and the other night she came down and helped me clean the daycare. She said to me, "Mom, can we keep some of these baskets the way they are with this and thats inside them?" (Basically baskets of mixed up toys that could be better organized in their own containers) "because sometimes when I am playing, I just look in these baskets, see some random weird toy, and say 'oh THAT'S just what I need! And I don't know I need it until I see it so how would I ever see it if it was it was all organized and perfect?"
Girl after my own heart right there. :wub:

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I know the feeling. But I also know the feeling of...peace? I think? that I feel when everything is organized and put away. It's like I love the adventure (not exactly the right word) of messiness, but I need the structure of clean. I have ADHD which is part of the problem. The messiness mirrors my natural brain, but organization around me helps me think/behave in a more organized fashion.

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Originally Posted by 3andMe

I'm a very hardcore INTJ. It has never changed in past 20 years, except I've gotten more INTJ-y. I've taken then Meyers-Briggs probably 5 times. The first time was in college, the second time in nursing school. My type is the least represented in nursing, I believe. I was the only INTJ in the room full of 50 nursing students.I would type more but my copmuter is being annoyingly laggy. Our internet is being spotty right now.

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I am also an INTJ, and have become more hardcore over the years. I took the test 12 years ago when I was in customer service and my TJ only slightly edged out my FP. I've spent the last 8 years in jobs that require constant data analysis and information synthesis and now I'm very high on both T and J. How do you feel about nursing as an INTJ? Do you think you approach your profession differently than your peers?

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Originally Posted by 3andMe

Anyway, I agreed that it was cultural, but that I would definitely notice if a child said piss instead of pee or bathroom/restroom in this country, just because it is considered a somewhat vulgar term. I would also notice urinate, because it would be unnecessarily proper. DH scolded me for trying to teach our 2-year-olds to say "pass gas" instead of fart, and said he did not want them to be the only two kids on the playground using exceptionally proper ("and prissy") phrasing. So I taught them about how to use polite language around grown-ups and older people and how they could use more common language among their peers.

I also changed some of my terminology specifically because of our school's policy on the word "butt." They don't use it there. They find it offensive. I had no idea so many people find it offensive, but I guess it's true. They use phrases like "Sit down on your bottom." Now I realize why my aunt said "derriere" and "rear end" instead of "butt" so frequently, which I thought was very weird. Now that I know so many people find the word offensive, I have started saying bottom more, but I have also talked to my kids about how some anatomical words and some verbs can be potty words depending on the context, and it's okay to say butt or pee if that's really what you need to describe, but it's not okay to use it as an adjective or pejorative or go around calling someone a poo poo head.

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Growing up in a fundamentalist home, pretty much anything that happened between your waist and your knees was vulgar and/or a curse word. We didn't say "butt", it was bottom or rear if you must refer to it at all. Potty words in general were a no-no.


So, I sent an email to the midwife who attended my failed homebirth, telling her that I'm interested in becoming a midwife and ask if she'd be willing to meet with me to talk about some of the pros and cons of the various educational paths available to me. She wrote back that she was "very surprised but thrilled" that I was considering a career in midwifery. Now I'm totally doubting myself...does she not see me as the kind of person who would be interested in midwifery, and if so, does that mean that I'm not the kind of person who *ought* to be a midwife? She agreed to meet me, so of course, I will ask her about it, but...it's pretty easy to make me doubt myself.

I'm sure she meant it in a pleasantly surprised fashion. Try not to doubt yourself. If that's your desire, the inclination to succeed will be there. You're definitely smart enough.

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Originally Posted by dana_renay

So, I sent an email to the midwife who attended my failed homebirth, telling her that I'm interested in becoming a midwife and ask if she'd be willing to meet with me to talk about some of the pros and cons of the various educational paths available to me. She wrote back that she was "very surprised but thrilled" that I was considering a career in midwifery. Now I'm totally doubting myself...does she not see me as the kind of person who would be interested in midwifery, and if so, does that mean that I'm not the kind of person who *ought* to be a midwife? She agreed to meet me, so of course, I will ask her about it, but...it's pretty easy to make me doubt myself.

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When I first went into nursing school, the nurse practitioner who worked for my dad told me she was "very very surprised" that I would even consider a career in nursing and said she "would never expect" me to be a nurse. She did not even add pleasantries like thrilled. I am a very good nurse. Apparently just an unexpected one. And yes, I think I approach it differently than a lot of my peers, in many ways. When we went around the room saying why we went into nursing, just about everyone said, "Because I want to help people," and I said "Because I find the way the body and mind works and the things they are finding out in healthcare on a daily basis are fascinating, and I know that I will always be learning new things." I am a very capable nurse, and not overly sweet. Not to say I'm not sympathetic, because I am. I am kind. Just not mushy. I am the kind of nurse I would like to have. And I do love learning new things, and I always stay on top of the new developments. I like teaching patients and families and doctors and nurses about the things I learn.

Anyway, don't doubt yourself.

Omg, I'm laughing at the potty talk just because growing up, in our family we said "poot" for passing gas, too. And doing a number 2 was called a "dookie." I was watching Tia and Tamera the other day and one of their husbands said dookie and I laughed so hard at that. Toilet humour is big at our house.

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Originally Posted by AmeriBrit

Omg, I'm laughing at the potty talk just because growing up, in our family we said "poot" for passing gas, too. And doing a number 2 was called a "dookie." I was watching Tia and Tamera the other day and one of their husbands said dookie and I laughed so hard at that. Toilet humour is big at our house.

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That is what it was called in my family too!!

It used to crack me up (and still does) that the brother of a good friend of mine had the nickname of "Dookie Stick." I was like "ewwwwwwww!" I told him he might as well have called himself "turd."

Erin

We say "bum" in our home, and use a variety of phrases for passing gas such as "O' Pootertoot", "crop dust" and "was that a duck?" (although B does occasionally say "fart", which he learned at school). Bodhi thinks a "butt" is the end section of things, like the inedible part of the apple at the bottom and, of course cigarette butts, which he got obsessed with pointing out to me ever since we volunteered for a beach cleanup together. I think it's cute when he over-generalizes it to things like the butt of his foot (his heel).

Dana, I think your midwife was just projecting her own reasons for doing what she does onto you, and using them to judge you as a potential midwife. Please don't let it get to you. You know why you're interested in midwifery, and those reasons won't change. It sounds to me like her response was a little bit presumptive and rude. I mean, if I said I wanted to be a bikini model and people acted like they were trying to politely suppress their surprise, that'd be one thing, because I clearly don't have the figure. But for her to intone that you don't seem like a good fit for something that takes study, skill and congeniality is pretty obnoxious. I think midwifery would be a fascinating career.

Mandy, I just retook the Keirsey test and scored an ENFP. What does that make me? I remember just last year we were talking Myers-Briggs, and I was still an "I", but just borderline. I guess something happened to put me over the line in the other direction. I still have an extremely high tolerance for being alone, and actually savor the time I have to myself, but becoming a mom is the one thing I can point to that has definitely given me more incentive to proactively be a part of my community. Over the years, the more I socialized, the more I found I want to socialize. Interestingly, I was an INTJ in my 20s, back when I was reading a lot of Ayn Rand and was very focused on personal excellence, my career trajectory, and having control over most aspects in my life. The fact that I have a shifting temperament makes me wonder a few things: 1) Is there a fixed trait underlying some people's psyches that makes it so their responses would change over time? 2) Does the way a person responds to the questions vary by the person's value system at the time of the test? My values have wildly changed since my 20s. For example, I value flexibility and generosity over the rigidity and parity that were of paramount importance to me back in the day. And while self-reliance is still important to me, I have experienced a boost in quality of life in areas where I'm helping others and they're helping me back. 3) Do people's answers on the test reflect who they truly are, or how they want to see themselves? I suspect whether or not one can be objective about oneself is tied to his/her temperament as well. I tried to get my husband to answer the questions about me last night to get his "objective" read on me, but he was too busy. I might try again later.

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Originally Posted by AmeriBrit

I did a MB test in college and was an "I" something I think. I wonder how you'd peg me, Mandy? :D

I was just talking to my cousin who's the physicist in learning musician and he told me I should start a blog. He's got one going about his theories in physics; I've always thought it would be fun to do one on the expat side of living abroad here in the UK; I'm sure there are dozens already out there as there's something like 250k Americans living in Britain, but no one else is me with my experiences, so I might just do it. I've also had a children's book idea in my head to write about the vocabulary differences between the two countries..

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To be honest, Ash, I wondered where you would fit but couldn't figure you out. My guess is either Guardian or Idealist.

I would love to read your blog about being an expat!

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Originally Posted by 3andMe

Anyway, I agreed that it was cultural, but that I would definitely notice if a child said piss instead of pee or bathroom/restroom in this country, just because it is considered a somewhat vulgar term. I would also notice urinate, because it would be unnecessarily proper. DH scolded me for trying to teach our 2-year-olds to say "pass gas" instead of fart, and said he did not want them to be the only two kids on the playground using exceptionally proper ("and prissy") phrasing. So I taught them about how to use polite language around grown-ups and older people and how they could use more common language among their peers.

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The linguistic word for that is code-switching, and it's an important concept for kids to learn, that we communicate differently depending on our audience. Being a multilingual child, Mira would have a head start on this concept anyway since she is learning to use one language or another depending on her audience. I don't think the concept is beyond her, and it's a big one.

I remember saying butt as a child, but I also remember my mother being shocked that one of my friends said it in her hearing. I guess she didn't consider it appropriate outside the immediate family. We had the strangest words, some of which I think she made up, like "urble" for vomit. We said "toot" for fart.

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Originally Posted by dana_renay

I am also an INTJ, and have become more hardcore over the years. I took the test 12 years ago when I was in customer service and my TJ only slightly edged out my FP. I've spent the last 8 years in jobs that require constant data analysis and information synthesis and now I'm very high on both T and J. How do you feel about nursing as an INTJ? Do you think you approach your profession differently than your peers?

I sent an email to the midwife who attended my failed homebirth, telling her that I'm interested in becoming a midwife and ask if she'd be willing to meet with me to talk about some of the pros and cons of the various educational paths available to me. She wrote back that she was "very surprised but thrilled" that I was considering a career in midwifery. Now I'm totally doubting myself...does she not see me as the kind of person who would be interested in midwifery, and if so, does that mean that I'm not the kind of person who *ought* to be a midwife? She agreed to meet me, so of course, I will ask her about it, but...it's pretty easy to make me doubt myself.

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Interesting that you are also an INTJ who is very close to INFP. I'm not alone!

And I bet the midwife was surprised because of the INTJ thing. Don't worry, I know you can do it and do it well, as L has done well in nursing. Go for it!

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Originally Posted by demigraf

Mandy, I just retook the Keirsey test and scored an ENFP. What does that make me? I remember just last year we were talking Myers-Briggs, and I was still an "I", but just borderline. I guess something happened to put me over the line in the other direction. I still have an extremely high tolerance for being alone, and actually savor the time I have to myself, but becoming a mom is the one thing I can point to that has definitely given me more incentive to proactively be a part of my community. Over the years, the more I socialized, the more I found I want to socialize. Interestingly, I was an INTJ in my 20s, back when I was reading a lot of Ayn Rand and was very focused on personal excellence, my career trajectory, and having control over most aspects in my life. The fact that I have a shifting temperament makes me wonder a few things: 1) Is there a fixed trait underlying some people's psyches that makes it so their responses would change over time? 2) Does the way a person responds to the questions vary by the person's value system at the time of the test? My values have wildly changed since my 20s. For example, I value flexibility and generosity over the rigidity and parity that were of paramount importance to me back in the day. And while self-reliance is still important to me, I have experienced a boost in quality of life in areas where I'm helping others and they're helping me back. 3) Do people's answers on the test reflect who they truly are, or how they want to see themselves? I suspect whether or not one can be objective about oneself is tied to his/her temperament as well. I tried to get my husband to answer the questions about me last night to get his "objective" read on me, but he was too busy. I might try again later.

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The NF part makes you an Idealist. Not surprising knowing you but you seem like a risk-taker so I initially thought Artisan. I haven't read the section with your subtype yet but will soon.

DH and I were talking about the difficulty of answering as you really are or as you want to see yourself. I did ask him for help with some of the questions so I could base them on my actual behavior rather than how I think I act. It was hard though. Mine also haven't been stable over time but after grad school, when I spent years worrying about data and evidence-based practice was when I went from INFP to INTJ. It makes a lot of sense.

L, I must not have quoted one part from you that I meant to, or I erased it. Your reasons for studying nursing are almost identical to mine for studying communication disorders. I really wanted to know how communication worked and further my knowledge. I'm hands-on and good with my students and with their parents, which is a surprise to me, but I can be more blunt and draw a harder line than some of my teacher colleagues can.

Interesting, I took another test and it said I was an INTJ too. I remember we had a discussion about this before and I thought I was an IS something or other. But the description is pretty similar to me as I have become more focused on being rational and in control over the course of the past few years.

Myles, that is interesting you are now an extrovert! People usually think I am because I thrive in social settings and am pretty talkative, but all that is exhausting to me and I'd rather not talk most of the time (DH doesn't believe it though!).

Erin

Wow, a lot of INTJs in here! Maybe that's why we all get along?

I do think sometimes that I don't share as much as a lot of ladies do on here, so I wonder how people 'read' me. I'm working really hard on that on here and in real life to try to make more friends and to let people get to know me. I live in my own world a lot of times, like Ally McBeal with my running commentary in my head, unlike my SIL who just talks about the most mundane things sometimes; she can liven up any day-to-day event when she's telling a story, so I'm trying to take a leaf out of her book and slowly coming out of my little shell. I'll post a link to my blog when it's up and running. I'm just doing some maintenance on it now, but I'd love to have some readers when it gets going!

I'm definitely an introvert, but it's funny how when I'm in a room full of new people, I'm usually the one who makes the most conversation with everyone else.

I took the test from my book, but you can tak it online here: http://www.keirsey.com/. Let us know what you get!

I'm an introvert, too, but I can talk a lot, especially at work or with my family. I just have to be comfortable. But I definitely "recharge" by being alone.

I took the test and it said I was a guardian (SJ).

What subtype? Definitely an introvert, right?

Hmm..I didn't see the subtype bit; it just took me to a page about Guardians and if I wanted more info, it wanted me to upgade to pay, but I am definitely an introvert. I have to have my alone time to recharge myself every day!

Oh, okay. An introverted Guardian is either ISTJ (inspector) or ISFJ (protector). I'm guessing you're the second type - more people focused than focused on things.

Here's the two types:

http://www.keirsey.com/4temps/inspector.asp
http://www.keirsey.com/4temps/protector.asp

Yes, that's me! I'm an ISFJ! :D

We found you!

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Originally Posted by Gwenn

We found you!

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You did! That part where it said that my type can come across cold, but really we really care about people is so true! I'm always hyper aware of how I come across to people.